2008 Finley Award Winners

Kimberley | 18/01/2009 - 13:45

Certificates for Finley awards 2008

For coping with a difficult script - Judith Lauhehr, What Are Little Girls Made Of, Kwinana Theatre Workshop

For Comic timing . Susannah Devenish and Robert Whyte, How the Other Half Loves, Harbour

For impressive and balletic sock removal skills, Gordon Park for
Bedfull of Foreigners Wanneroo Repertory.

Make up certificate for Bobby Chapman, Malita Morrison, Judy Sarcia for Edwin Drood , Roleystone.

Best Staged Accident : Matt Sheehey , “This is Our Youth” , Blak Yak

Most energetic villain performance in a pantomime” Graham Miles for Aladdin, KADS

Most impressive prop on stage this year: the Jolly Roger, Peter Pan, Darlington Theatre Players

For practical lighting co ordination – Gaslight, John Spurling, Old Mill Theatre

For Atmospheric lighting – John Woolrych, “bare” Playlovers

For sound coordination – Dan Mitton and Norm Kirton for Peter Pan , Darlington Theatre Players

Most sensitive and moving characterisation – Chris Bedding, Amigos, Garrick Theatre.

For perfectly timed comedy: the cast of “ How about That” at Garrick Theatre.

Best Actor

Winner: Alex Jones : This is our Youth – Blak Yak Theatre.

Best Actress

Winner: Kristen Berry: Deus Ex Quanta: Blak Yak Theatre.

David Crewes Award for Excellence in Set Design and Construction

Winner: Suddenly at Home: Melville Theatre Company

Best Costumes

Winner: Venetian Twins: Old Mill Theatre.

Best Choreography

Winner: Jess Dun, Bullet Betty Vareska: The Directive of Six: UDS

Best Other than Lead Male:

Winner: Phil Barnett: The Sum of Us: Old Mill Theatre.

Best Other than Lead Female:

Winner: Barbara Reynolds : Amys View KADS

Best Director

Winner: Teresa Felvus: Deckchairs: KTW

Mary Webb Award for Direction of A Musical

Winner: Alex McLennan: Hot Mikado : Wanneroo Rep.

Elizabeth Crewes Award: Old Mill Theatre.

Sheila Buchanan Award: Stage Left Theatre Troupe, Goldfields for innovation and creation of concept.

Brian Maddocks Youth Award: Jono Hopkins, Alive In Wonderland, Stirling Players

Best Musical Direction;

Winner: John McPherson : Bullet Betty Vareska:The Directive of Six UDS

Yvonne Lynch Award for Outstanding Breakthrough Performance:

Winner: Michael Abercrombie: Bullet Betty Vareska: The Directive of Six: UDS

Best Musical theatre Performer:

Winner: Leo Dounsborough: the Mystery of Edwin Drood: Roleystone

Top Ten Plays

Jake’s Women: Old Mill
Much Ado about Nothing: GRADS
Venetian Twins: Old Mill
Butterflies are Free: Marloo
Deckchairs: KTW
Wuthering Heights: Harbour theatre
The sum of Us: Old Mill
This is our Youth . Blak Yak
Dangerous Obsession: Old Mill
How the Other Half Loves: Harbour

Top three Plays in order

1. Deckchairs: KTW

2. The Sum of us: Old Mill Theatre

3. Butterflies are Free: Darlington Theatre Players

Top Five Musicals

Hot Mikado , Wanneroo Rep
The Mystery of Edwin Drood: Roleystone
Fame: Wanneroo Rep
Bare: Playlovers
Bullet Betty Vareska, The Directive of Six: UDS

Top three Musicals in Order

1.Bare: Playlovers

2. Fame: Wanneroo Rep

3. Bullet Betty Vareska, The Directive of Six; UDS

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Hi Kimberley, Firstly,
Author: Brenda W (not verified)
Date: 18/01/2009 - 16:49

Hi Kimberley,

Firstly, thankyou to everyone involved for an entertaining evening.

Secondly, I'd like to make a couple of suggestions/comments from the point of view of someone who really knows nothing about theatre/awards nights/technical stuff like lighting (I was chorus in a nominated show so went along to support the cast, but haven't been around long enough to know what has been suggested/rejected previously, so apologies if this is all old news).

In the programme, I thought it would be a nice idea to be able to dedicate a couple of pages toward a very brief synopsis of every play/musical - as I said, I don't have much to do with theatre so didn't get around to seeing most of what was nominated, and in particular the scene from "This is our Youth" made me wish I'd managed to see it, and I'd liked to have known what it was about.

Nothing at all against Katy and Dan Mitton, but I didn't much like the "voiceover" idea, which I read from here was a new addition this year. They did a fantastic job but I'm rather lazy and like something to look at, but I understand it might not flow as nicely, someone walking on just to introduce someone else, then walk off again.

With adjudicator's certificates, like "best set" and "best poster", I thought it would be good to use that big screen they flash every play/musical on, to maybe give a photo of some of them so the people who didn't go can appreciate the work put into winning the certificate. And for things like "best staged accident", maybe a description of it? They sounded like fun things to know, so share the joke!

As the designated driver of the night, I wanted a soft drink after the show before leaving - but only alcohol was being served. Nothing non-alcoholic, not even water, was available for purchase after the show. I felt that was pretty irresponsible, especially in summer with drivers and young children and people who just plain don't want alcohol attending the show. Is there a reason only alcohol can be bought once the show finishes?

And lastly, what was the name of the man who won the lifetime achievement award?


Hi Kimberley....
Author: Norma
Date: 18/01/2009 - 17:04

To Brenda W.

I can answer the last two questions for you:

David Goodall is the name of the actor who was inducted into the "ITA HALL of Fame"

Regarding the non-availibilty of water and soft drinks.

These were being sold at the school's own kiosk downstairs along with tea and coffee, but we did not appreciate that they would close after the interval and we had not alllowed for this. You were not the only person annoyed by this!


Hi Brenda, Thanks for your
Author: Kimberley
Date: 18/01/2009 - 17:11

Hi Brenda,

Thanks for your feedback. I'll try and approach every issue.

With the synopsis of each show. There were 54 shows entered and to do a fair and accurate synopsis of each would be tricky. Getting this sort of information out of clubs is notoriously difficult. It would also be a lot of pages extra. It is a good idea in theory thouhgh and I'll see what we can do.

The only way to see if things like voiceovers work, is to trial them, which is what we were doing. In the past, getting a host on and off each time has literally added at least half an hour to the evening - Most of our feedback on the voice - overs has been positive, but we'll take your suggestions on board.

We can definately do something about displaying the best poster. Best set is more difficult. We would need to ask every show to supply a photo of their set. Not every set is photographed, not all photos are "good" or representative and it would be difficult to get every picture - or even all the nominees at this time of year, up to 11 months after shows. (Getting photos of the people nominees was really, really hard - and people look like they do all the time, sets only exist for a short time.)

We (the ITA) are not allowed to sell soft-drinks in the venue. That is the privelege of the venue. It was my understanding that they were to be open. It is a difficult issue as we are only hiring the venue.


 18/01/2009 - 17:12 Kimberley Please excuse my typos in
Great Night at the Finleys
Author: Ray Condy
Date: 18/01/2009 - 17:56

Last night we went to the Finleys and it was an amazing night,a very entertaining show.
With all due respect to the winners and nominees, I think the award for the best show has to go to the Finleys itself. If all the volunteers that worked behind the scenes worked anywhere near as hard as the people in the bar did (as I am sure you did) then you all deserve a trophy.
While we are talking about the bar...... $8 dollars for a glass of yellow glen and a corona ...... best bar in town !
By the end of 4 Coronas, I had forgotten which catagory I wasn't nominated in!
PS Does anyone what kind of flowers,chocolates or wine the adjudicators like?

See you there next year
Ray Condy


Just to add my two cents
Author: Schwarzy (not verified)
Date: 18/01/2009 - 18:07

Just to add my two cents (and having attended past Finley Awards nights which finished closer to 11) I thought the voice overs were a fantastic way of keeping the night flowing and cutting down running time. Finishing at 10:30 was fab as it gave me a chance to catch up with friends afterwards whilst still being able to have a reasonable night's sleep with work the next day! Great job Dan and Katy! And the ITA! Thanks for another great night!


I agree with Schwarzy - the
Author: Louisa Fitzhardinge
Date: 18/01/2009 - 19:40
Louisa Fitzhardinge's picture

I agree with Schwarzy - the voiceovers were great and kept everything moving along because they were scripted nice and tightly. There's sometimes a tendency for on-stage presenters to feel like they have to build a repore with the audience which leads to them filling time with banter, and it can get a bit much (and long!). Using voiceovers to introduce acts is a great compromise.

Also, as the OP mentioned, there are often cases when we're not familiar with the performance/performer/crew member etc winning an award. Perhaps the dead time taken for them to scoot up to the stage could be filled with a short explanatory voiceover? i.e. "John Smith played the romantic lead of Danny in Grease by X Theatre Company, a musical about the lives and loves of several high school seniors." or "This award-winning set from Y Theatre Company was entirely created of cardboard boxes."

PS congrats to all the Finley winners!

---
Louisa Fitzhardinge
University Dramatic Society
http://uds.asn.au


Great suggestions
Author: Kimberley
Date: 18/01/2009 - 20:47

Great suggestions Louise,

We made a move towards that this year with trying to work out which nominees wouldn't be there and announcing who would be collecting the award for him or her in that time space, we don't have contact details for everyone of course, and have only the two weeks between noms night and Finley night. (You may have noticed our desperate rush to get photos).

The trouble with that and your suggestion, is that you need to collect info from EVERY nominee (which we did surreptiously about attendence as far as possible) because if you don't do it for everyone you are alerting people as to the winners are.

Having said that, I think you are right, we should try it.

Kim


 18/01/2009 - 20:48 Kimberley Sorry
Poster award
Author: Merri Ford
Date: 18/01/2009 - 22:02
Merri Ford's picture

Just wondering who won the poster award? I think I've read everything on this thread twice and I can't find that one.

Congrats to all involved it sounds like it was a fun night and one day when I don't have little ones to put to bed I'll be able to attend Smiling

"In my work I do three things - Good, Cheap and Fast - if you employ me you may choose two" - Cam Ford


 19/01/2009 - 00:38 Brenda W (not verified) I just remember them being
Print Award
Author: Kimberley
Date: 19/01/2009 - 10:54

Went to Bunbury Repertory Club for print and publicity for The Crucible.


Obviously this is not
Author: Death Eater (not verified)
Date: 19/01/2009 - 12:11

Obviously this is not Kerri. So, Kerri Hilton Paris's father, who are you? Didn't win when you thought you had it in the bag? Can't find anyone else to blame? Listened to your parents when they told you that you should've won? Just a little too drunk at the time to be allowed to be in charge of a computer?

Let's look at this logically. So Kerri successfully impersonated three other adjucators for 365 days last year plus some of this year. She kept them hidden and made sure the general public and their family and friends did not notice their absence. Or maybe she gagged and bound them at an adjudicators meeting and has kept them that way or hypnotically compliant since then.

Yes, she decided all the awards at the Finleys; no one else had any say in it at all! Come on!!!!

Mr. KHPF, do you think you should rethink your stand in light of the awards and the spread of major catagories? Me thinks so.

What didn't you win champ, or did you win something and think you should have got more, or even all?

Where's the evidence of your claims? Is there a point or did you just need to lash out in some sort of angst driven frenzy?

Maybe you could answer these questions or state how you think her plan worked, or better still, maybe just keep your conspiracy theories to yourself.

Well done ITA ... a good night and great spread of awards.


KHPF? Why?
Author: Heraldic
Date: 19/01/2009 - 18:24
Heraldic's picture

As an adjudicator during 2008, and having spied the Finleys disappointment factor surface in years past through this website, the following is relevant:

One adjudicator has no control of all the rest; and in fact some of my scores / awards choices were put into sharp focus as being at odds at our meetings, but as an exercise in achieving a list of winners, it is what we worked with and the results are there for all to see.

If the system needs changing, so be it, may the brains of WA community theatre can get together and change it.

I enjoyed my year , exhausting as it was, being an adjudicator , and thanks to Kimberley and her committee for selecting me.

I did not agree with all that was decided but accepted on the grounds that I am one adjudicator , not four.

There are as I pointed out on the Awards night , thousands of people involved in Community theatre , but only 4 (maybe 3) adjudicators could found!!!!

Plus, for the record , character attacks on this website lower its tone as many have said before. I strongly disapprove of them being aired on this forum. Contact the person and sort it out if you like.

..and finally, if you are doing community theatre just to get awards, you need to question your motivation in this regard.

Load up and fire if you wish.Im all ears!

Regards,
Ken .


Finley Award Night
Author: Brenda S (not verified)
Date: 19/01/2009 - 10:59

I agree with the other Brenda it would be a good idea to see a picture of the winning set.I'm quite sure theatre groups must take photos of their sets. I know I have every set I have designed recorded in my theatre scrapbooks (along with the many costumes I have made also) What a great feeling to at last be rewarded for all my hard work. Thanks so much to Kerry, Ken, Sue and Graham and to the ITA committee for all their hardwork. Brenda S


Clarification Please
Author: Confused (not verified)
Date: 19/01/2009 - 11:32

Could someone please clarify what the criterea is for a full length play to be entered into the Finley Awards. As far as I am aware "Deck Chairs" is a series of 4 x 1 act plays, the only thing in common is that they are all set in a seaside location and the same actors can be used for each. The story lines are all different and they do not relate to each other.

Does this mean that theatre's putting on one act seasons around the Festival times are eligible for the Finley's as well?

Your comments are apreciated.....


 19/01/2009 - 12:31 Sam1982 (not verified) Congrats to all that won
yep
Author: Garry D
Date: 19/01/2009 - 13:00
Garry D's picture

Sam, in response to your first comment...I don't think I'd be listening to those rumours. I've got no doubt that every adjudicator would have disagreed with at least some of the final results. Theatre is always going to be subjective!

Your comment about having marks is 100% spot on - indeed, this is pretty much how the system works already. The problem is that with so many shows on each year, the number of points separating the winner from the chasing pack is always going to be negligible - especially when scores are averaged between four adjudicators.


 19/01/2009 - 12:35 Walter Planchette (not verified) Deckchairs was written as a
YEP
Author: Norma
Date: 19/01/2009 - 13:23

To reiterate what Garry D has just written, that is exactly how the system works, and furthermore there is a published clear set of guidelines for the Adjudicators to work to.

However as in everything in life-especially entertainment, what one person may think is wonderful, another will think is mediocre or hate it! 

So with the best set of guidleines and the  best will in the world  the results will still be subjective to a certain extent.

Maybe some clever person could come up with a robot designed to eliminate all human thinking, tho I don't know what  system 'it' could be designed to use!


clarification and resignation
Author: kerri
Date: 19/01/2009 - 14:26

Seeing as I am apparently the adjudicator who is causing so many problems let me clarify a few points now.

The judging system for the finley awards is very clear and concise. It is a marking system and all of the adjudicators mark and we meet and discuss our marks. Theatre is subjective and if you are passionate about your theatre, you will of course end up having heated discussions. I have had many heated discussions with my friends over theatre, good and bad. I make no apology for my being passionate about something I love.

Secondly , yes I was overruled on a number of plays this year, and I wasnt happy about it, but I wasnt the only one. If you ask any of the adjudicators over the past few years you will know that we are over ruled all the time. We were all over ruled by each other at some time and we get over it.
That is part of the adjudicators system, we sit down, we listen and we continue on. it is surely a better system to have your marks on the table and to discuss the marks ( in front of an ITA representative at each meeting!) than to hide your marks away and not have to justify them.

Two years ago I told the ITA that I had had enough of adjudicating and that I wanted to stop. I was asked to stay on in 2007 and I said I would however it would be my last year. I made that very clear to everyone. Last year we held three training courses in order to find new adjudicators. We found four and I was delighted to be able to resign. One of the new adjudicators pulled out at the last minute and I was asked to stay on. I thought about it for a long time as I had already said I was leaving. I decided to stay because I didn't want to see the system that we started fail.

The adjudicators job is not an easy one. It requires many hours of your own time and it requires you to sit back and evaluate every show you see rather than just going for the enjoyment of seeing a show.

However, it is very clear that there are a number of people who are not happy that I am passionate about my job and that I take my job seriously.

With that in mind, the ITA has my resignation immediately. For those of you who know that you can do a better job, feel free to take the vacant spot, I am sure the ITA will thank you for it. I am sure you will do a fantastic job, and that you will agree with everything that every other adjudicator says about every play that you see and every performance. It must be nice to be perfect.

May I also take this oppportunity to thank you for giving me my life back, and for allowing me the opportunity to do so many things this year now that I would have been unable to do.

Kerri Hilton


Sigh. And I thought that we
Author: Schwarzy (not verified)
Date: 19/01/2009 - 14:44

Sigh. And I thought that we had survived a Finley Awards without the nasty, ridiculous, petty backlash. Shame on me for jumping to the conclusion too quickly that the W.A. theatre community had grown and matured over the past year. Sad sad sad.


Idiots
Author: Dean Schulze
Date: 19/01/2009 - 15:29

Fair dinkum, I have spent a few years ignoring all the twaddle on this website (sorry Grant, no offence mate)but this is too much for a man to bear.

Does this idiot who can't even spell Kerri's name seriously believe theatre adjudicators aren't going to have heated discussions? You moron! Grow up (or at least grow some male reproductive thingys and sign your posts).

The amount of time and effort put in by all the adjudicators is astonishing. Very few people are dedicated enough. We should all be celebrating the fact that they do, not minimizing the chances they will continue on. It's a simple equation dimwit :-

No adjudicators = no Findley awards.

Get your head out of your rectum and recognize that the world does not revolve around you. If a decision does not go your way, move on. So dry your eyes princess and build a bridge.

I will not be responding so feel free to denigrate what I have said in any childish way you please.


Well Said!!
Author: Alex Mc
Date: 19/01/2009 - 16:51

Well said Dean!! There are a number of small minded, petty people out there. Unfortunately in seems to be growing!

Kerri Hilton is a BIG loss to the Finley's system. A lady with a wealth of knowledge and person who I would have absolute faith in making well judged decisions. No adjudicator deserves this sort of treatment.

Good Luck to the adjudicators in 2009 . . . . you'll definitely need a thick skin!


Finley adjudication
Author: Stage Left Theatre Troupe Goldfields WA Inc. (not verified)
Date: 19/01/2009 - 17:01

Hello from Stage Left Theatre Troupe Goldfields WA Inc.

Firstly, congratulations to Kimberley, Danni, Tracee, Tyler, Felicity, Alan, Claudette, Paul, Kristen and David - for another awesome Finleys night. Thank you for all the work that went into making it a great evening - you are all amazing - and thank you also to Damon for helping back stage, to Zyg for the gorgeous photography and to Dan and Katy for the voice overs, which were done extremely well.
The whole night ran very smoothly and finished early - and as we had young children travelling with us - it enabled us to still have time to see everyone, pass on the congrats and say our farewells. Thank you everyone.

Last night - after the long drive home from Perth to Kal (!) - I emailed all our members, friends and other interested community theatre supporters to share the excitement of Stage Left's win - bringing home the Sheila Buchanan Memorial Trophy Adjudicators' Achievement Award has been a humbling experience and has really enthused, excited and inspired our community here in the Goldfields.

We are so grateful to be acknowledged for our hard work in our inaugural year. Those of you out there who have set up a new theatre company from scratch know exactly how hard it can be and how much work and effort it takes. We've had an amazing time, culminating in the "theatre in the bush" project featuring "Pirates of Penzance" which was the first production Stage Left has entered in the Finleys.

Whilst we know that we are not spoilt for choice as you often can be in Perth with a much vaster talent pool to pull from, we will always be struggling to find amazing singers, musicians and performers here in the Goldfields (all the really brilliant ones inevitably leave us for bigger and better things in the big smoke - either in Perth or on the east coast!) So we never anticipated winning anything - going up against some amazing shows from 2008 with some truly sensational talent (much of which we saw on stage on Saturday night - and again - CONGRATS to those performers and those shows which won the accolades).

The 2008 Finley adjudicators chose to recognise our effort for what it was - an amazing and unique theatre experience. We had SO many people come on board to assist us - work with us - encourage us - provide hands-on construction help or advice. Check out the photos some time on Facebook in the Stage Left Theatre Troupe Goldfields WA Inc. group. You will see what we did with a humble sheep station!

As the very proud director of this production and the club's vice president, I am constantly amazed and inspired by the group of people around us. They are not only talented and generous, they are selfless and inspirational.

Three of the four adjudicators attended our theatre in the bush extravaganza - Ken, Kerri and Graeme. Sue was unfortunately unable to travel at the time, which was a shame.

I could not be in more AWE of the Finley adjudicators - both past and present. Over the years I have seen them all give heart and soul to the adjudication process. They clock up countless miles of travel - countless shows to watch and then write critiques about - and give up so many other things just to be there for community theatre in WA. They get very little recognition, thanks or recompense for this - they do it because they love it and are passionate about the growth of community theatre.
These are real people with real lives and real opinions. As they have all freely said, today and previously, they don't always see eye to eye - and sometimes they have to back down on their opinion. That's called being human! And when all is said and done, they get over it and move on.

So should the critics!!!
I concur with what has already been said today on this site and elsewhere - theatre is subjective. What one person loves, another will not. That's the way it is. And that's life. Grab a cup of concrete and harden up Smiling

I haven't always agreed with Kerri's opinions - and with those of some of the other adjudicators too! But they are there to do a job and they do it very well. It's not meant to be a popularity contest! We invite their critique, so we need to be prepared to listen to it, and learn from it. If anyone thinks they can do it better, then by all means, put your hand up and become a volunteer. Do the adjudicator's courses, and then apply. Stop sitting back and hiding behind anonymous posts to throw nasty comments out there. What on earth does that achieve?

Kerri Hilton has our utmost respect for all that she has done - and for her dedication to her role. It is tireless and it's thankless. We've loved hosting her in Kalgoorlie and are well aware that at times it has been inconvenient and expensive for her to make the trip(s) yet, she hasn't shirked from doing so.

Kerri, I don't blame you for resigning on the spot today, yet I am very sad to hear it. And community theatre in WA will be far poorer for it. I will still always invite your opinions, advice and ideas.
In the meantime, don't forget that any time you want to visit Kalgoorlie again, you know you will be made very welcome - and we'll even find jobs for you to do while you are here!! lol (Graeme, Ken and Sue - that invitation goes for you guys also!)

To those out there who seem to find it easier to be nasty than nice, remember this: "He who flings mud, loses a lot of ground"

Lisa van Oyen
Vice President (Little Quack)
Stage Left Theatre Troupe Goldfields WA Inc.


What a terrible shame.
Author: Deatheater (not verified)
Date: 19/01/2009 - 17:05

What a terrible shame.

I recall a comment from Graeme Johnson on Finley Night about what we do not being called amature anymore. Unfortunately some of the posts on this site prove otherwise.

Whinges about people based on body size, based on medical problems and such critical reviews as this show was crap evryone was crap without any argument as to why something was crap.

Bitching about shows because you did not get into them, bitching about people because they did not cast you.

Then the pearler of them all - bitching and complaining about how bad something is and then not becoming involved to make changes.

Bitching about processes that they have no idea about. Throwing accusations around the site about peoples honesty or credibility without any evidence to back it up.

It is a shame to me that this site cannot be used as a forum for critical response, praise, support, education and advertisement.

To those of you out there in cyber critic land there is a difference between a critical review and a derogatory one.

In the case of Kerri Hilton what a shame that a great talent and body of knowledge ans skill has been lost as an adjudicator. Mr KHPF I hope you are happy. You have accused Kerri of bias and subjectiveness when indeed your whole post is about that. You did not agree with her and so you must be right and no one else is. Your view of the situation is that this bias occurred and so it is true.

Discussion over marks happen everywhere. In TEE courses for Dram at schools teachers get together to discuss marks and moderate them. In sport I am sure not all selectors get together and agree on every choice.

In politics well caucus meetings are just big arguments.

People are people all of those adjudicators would have had different opinions and all would have marked differently.

Having not done a show this year it was great to see the Finleys and I was impressed by the spread of awards and it not being dominated by one club.

I hope the ITA realise what they will be missing and try to convince her to stay, she has my support in fact all of the adjudicators this year and others have my support but I do feel that Kerri will be a loss.


Finley Adjudication
Author: Kimberley
Date: 19/01/2009 - 17:21

On behalf of the Independent Theatre Association, I would like to re-iterate that the ITA puts a great deal of thought into the Finley system, the adjudication and selection of adjudicators.

The purely numeric system was abandoned and collaborative meetings introduced so that individual adjudicators can not rort the system, and so that they are accountable for each and every mark. (Briefly, a purely numeric system is difficult, because a 7/10 or a 76/100 means different things to different people.)

Further to this an independent observer from the ITA oversees every adjudication session to ensure that the process remains collaborative and fair and that proceedings are not being dominated by an overzealous or overpassionate adjudicator.

As such we can re-state that we have complete confidence in the 2008 adjudication and all four of the 2009 adjudicators. Our request for Kerri Hilton to remain on the panel for 2009 is a testament to our confidence in Kerri's ability and justice while adjudicating and we hope that she will reconsider her resignation.

As always, we are happy to respond to serious and signed correspondence about the adjudication process. Please send to our postal address.

Kimberley Shaw
President
Independent Theatre Association


Kerri!
Author: Daniel Kershaw
Date: 19/01/2009 - 18:32

I would prefer Kerri to give me a negative adjudication than many others to give me a postive critique. In the world of insincerity that is theatre, I am glad there are people like Kerri, who are willing to give me honest feedback.

Kerri has adjudicated for the ITA for many years now and deserves a break. It is a very strenuous job and very time consuming. I am happy that she has her life back to pursue any hobbies or past times that interest her.

Thanks Kerri. Have fun in 2009.


 19/01/2009 - 23:20 Walter Plunge (not verified) yes
 19/01/2009 - 23:48 Merri Ford Finleys the Musical
Further thanks
Author: Stage Left Theatre Troupe Goldfields WA Inc. (not verified)
Date: 20/01/2009 - 06:52

Very remiss of me not to also mention the amazing Lorna for her very thorough and organised coordination of back stage on Saturday night and on stage presence (yes, complete with NON-American accent JB!) - and also to Barbara for yet another top notch job as stage manager.

To Graeme and the other lads (I don't know your names, sorry!) who facilitated lighting and sound and juggled a number of different cues for the various excerpts brilliantly, a further vote of thanks and appreciation.

When you consider how fluidly everything went with just one day of tech-ing it again speaks volumes of how professional everyone is.


Finley Adjudicators 2009
Author: Kimberley
Date: 20/01/2009 - 09:01

On behalf on the ITA Committee I am pleased to announce that Kerri Hilton has reconsidered her decision and that the ITA Adjudicators in 2009 will continue to be Andrew Wong, Karen Woodcock, Kerri Hilton and Olga Ward.

We are very pleased with the panel, who bring broad and varied experience to the task.

Kimberley Shaw
\iTA President


 20/01/2009 - 10:42 Labrug Ouch!
Re: Post Identification
Author: Standard Raiser (not verified)
Date: 20/01/2009 - 10:39

That is excellent news, however the whole issue still reflects badly on all of us in the wider theatre community.

Kerri Hilton should never have been subjected to the insulting innuendos she suffered. If just one of the Winging Walters contributed 1% of what she does for theatre in the West, it would stun me.

What surely must happen now, is that the Theatre Australia site should have a separate Members Only section for reviews, comments and debates, that is private (only accessible to registered members) and will only accept contributions under members names, no more aliases.

By all means have a public forum post where anonymous posters can vent their spleen and demonstrate their obvious personality defects / personal issues, that way it’s separated from serious discussions and debates and the rest of us are not tainted with odour of these peasants.

If somebody is too ashamed or scared to write under their own name, the public forum section will serve their purpose..
There is nothing wrong with healthy debate and argument, as Kerri pointed out in her reply, but the time has come for reasoned debate, not the mud-slinging invectives and veiled threats that have become common-place on this website.

If people are genuine, believe in their views and want to contribute, they will have no objection to signing in and being identified. Those that don’t simply should not be allowed to contribute, or be a part of the community, other than the public posting forum.

I think this should happen as a matter of urgency, we have new people who have volunteered their time to adjudicate for 2009 and Kerri has agreed to stay on, we owe it to them and ourselves to move on these Wallies
Cheers
Greg Ross


Kerri, I applaud you.
Author: JustSuse
Date: 20/01/2009 - 12:02
JustSuse's picture

Kerri, I applaud you and your decision to stay on. Having just shared last year's adjudicating burden with you, I know first hand the load you have carried, and your passion and sincerity has inspired and humbled me. I know how reluctant you were to spend yet another year racing around doing what we have all come to take for granted from you - giving so much of your time and energy serving our Theatre Community.

We simply cannot allow the venom of one sad, pissed-off little pipsqueak the power to manipulate the Theatre community. Thank you for making the decision you have. Bouquet of flowers

Sue Hayward.


Welcome back, you poor thing
Author: Merri Ford
Date: 20/01/2009 - 12:06
Merri Ford's picture

I agree with Jeff, it's terrific to have Kerri back on board but my goodness woman you've got to be close to burn out. I'm happy that you're able to rise above the insults and slurs upon your good name in a field that is, after all, AMATEUR theatre, a thing by definition that you do for the LOVE of it but I'm also sad because it means that all your free time will be taken up with critiquing rather than gracing us with your terrific acting abilities on stage.

Hats off to you, Kerri, I hope you finish this year still absolutely loving community theatre and not just hanging in there because you feel a responsibility to it.

Hugs (to Kerri for strength)

"In my work I do three things - Good, Cheap and Fast - if you employ me you may choose two" - Cam Ford


Why all the fuss?
Author: stinger
Date: 20/01/2009 - 12:38
stinger's picture

If there were a rash of reactionary anonymous postings, they seem to have disappeared before I could read them. In any case, weren't we all expecting something of the kind anyway? And whatever happened to 'DFT'?

It seems to me that we are all treating the 'Finleys' like a sporting event. If our team wins, they are the best and the rest are consequently a bunch of losers. If our team should have won but didn't, blame the coach, or better still, the umpire.

I suggest we all lighten up a bit, accept the 'Finleys' simply as peer acknowledgement for effort and ignore the trolls while keeping the website free and open to all.

Ssstinger>>>


 20/01/2009 - 23:44 Freddie Badgery Hear Hear
 25/01/2009 - 13:27 Stanley Deatheater
 25/01/2009 - 19:28 Jade Robinson (not verified) Why aren't professionals
Why aren't professionals
Author: Norma
Date: 25/01/2009 - 19:44

If you stopped to think for one moment, you would possibly realise that Professionals need paying- (and why not, if they are to see all the productions entered, review them and report on them it would take up much of their time- only if you have been an adjudiactor can you realise just how much time)

The ITA simply does not have that sort of money.

FULL STOP!


 25/01/2009 - 21:29 Josephine Mittra (not verified) So then why are
Why professionals
Author: Alex Mc
Date: 26/01/2009 - 00:15

Just because one gets paid to do something doesn't mean that they have the credentials to critique that something. Example - Just because a guy has played professional football doesn't mean that they will be a good commentator, just look at Drew Banfield and Dermott Brereton!! So just because they act professionally, to me, doesn't mean that they will adjudicate the Finleys any better or worse than an amateur adjudicator!

And those of you out there who think that just because they are professionals and getting paid to adjudicate the Finleys that they won't argue or have disagreements then you are sadly mistaken. They are still only four people who all have their own opinions and likes and dislikes. And I bet that it still won't stop the bitching and moaning about the Finley Award decisions.

Lets all get a grip here and have faith in the ITA adjudicator selection process. And that these four people will adjudicate to the best of their ability in a fair and professional manner.


 26/01/2009 - 09:01 Erika Lang (not verified) So by that logic, as
 26/01/2009 - 08:58 Sara M (not verified) I had a great time at the
Trying to answer your question Sara
Author: Kimberley
Date: 26/01/2009 - 10:25

Ok - music for the Finleys can be a little tricky. Like actors, it can be difficult to reassemble the same musicians months after the show (they are away or going to a 21st or being a bridesmaid at a cousin's wedding or have a professional gig etc), so sometimes they will use a pre-recorded backing track or borrow musicians from other shows etc.

I know that there was a lots of negotiation between the clubs to share keyboards etc as well as people.

So like we mentioned with actors on the night it is as "close as they could get" to the original bands.


RSA bar stuff
Author: bree
Date: 26/01/2009 - 11:05

Hiya,
I know this is off track from the majority of the responses here but the bar should have had water free of charge as part of its Responsible Service of Alcohol (RSA) requirements. If the police had done a random check you (the licensee... and anyone associated ie. on that committee, serving, applicant for the license etc.) would have been in serious trouble. It is the law that when serving alcohol you must provide water free of charge (tap water is fine)and part of RSA to have non-alcoholic beverage options. I read the response that said it was assumed the kiosk would be open but that responsibility comes down to the licensee of the bar. You definately don't want that to happen again!!


I may be wrong....
Author: jmuzz
Date: 27/01/2009 - 10:29
jmuzz's picture

...but wasn't there water and softdrinks available downstairs?


Yes but the bar remained
Author: Stephanie Jones (not verified)
Date: 27/01/2009 - 11:28

Yes but the bar remained open after downstairs closed, so therefore water was no longer available, contravening the regulations as stated above.


Oops!
Author: jmuzz
Date: 27/01/2009 - 13:01
jmuzz's picture

Ah....i see


The ITA committee did make
Author: TylerJ
Date: 28/01/2009 - 16:33

The ITA committee did make water available for those who requested it, although they were not selling bottled water.

The committee also requested for the downstairs kiosk to remain open after the show, and were under the impression that it would be -- this of course didn't happen on the night though. Rest assured more attention will be paid to making sure non-alcoholic beverages are available before AND after the show for next year Smiling


Clarification
Author: Kimberley
Date: 28/01/2009 - 22:59

To add to Tyler's comment above, there was a miscommunication within the committee, in our specific needs not being comminicated to the venue.

We would like to thank Lady Wardle Performing Arts Centre, especially manager Lars Jensen for the fantastic assistance with all aspects of the evening.

Any big event involving multiple organisations (and volunteers) is liable to have teething problems, I am sure that we will get it right soon.


 29/01/2009 - 07:40 Teetotaller (not verified) And hopefully you won't get
Can we have an end to this?
Author: jmuzz
Date: 29/01/2009 - 08:39
jmuzz's picture

Seems like some people are taking the opportunity to rub salt in the wounds here. Clearly there was an error stemming from a miscommunication between the ITA and the venue itself. The belief was that water would be freely available and I'm guessing that next year the simple fix will be having jugs of tap water available in the bar area.

Alternatively, if people want a crucifixion about this issue I guess we could just do away with service of alcohol all together?

How about we just ban community theatre in Perth? That would save an awful lot of volunteers time and money wouldn't it? And it would certainly ensure we don't have a repeat of the problem.
Too radical?

How about the simple solution - accept the apology in the good grace it was given and SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

Putting things in perspective when all the facts are known can be a difficult concept but God forbid we apply common sense to any issue anymore. It's so much easier when you're not creative to point the finger at those who are and tear down their efforts with your one liners isn't it Teetotaller? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone - I guess it must be nice to have never made a mistake in your life.
Thank God we have clearly defined rules in place for everything these days so that we can delegate any personal responsibility to others. If the world was clear of idiots and the pernicious and invasive influence of conservative religious zealots perhaps we would have to accept responsibility for our actions like we used to not so long ago and legislation such as Responsible Service of Alcohol wouldn't be needed!
Let it go teetotaller and your ilk - you're giving me a hangover.


Normally, jmuzz, I do agree
Author: Le anne (not verified)
Date: 30/01/2009 - 14:06

Normally, jmuzz, I do agree with what you say, but I think this post was a bit off.
Earlier it was stated that this is the first year that this has happened. I went to the Finleys in both 2008 and 2009 and both times it was at the same venue and both times, downstairs closed after intermission. Both times, I even asked after the show if I could buy anything non alcoholic and was told no, downstairs was shut. I appreciate that Kimberley addressed that point and said some people were given water, I'm just saying that not everyone was. So this isn't an isolated event with teething issues, it's happened 2 years that I know of, but as I didn't attend the Finleys previously can't say how long it has happened for.
I could definitely understand it being the other way around and only serving non-alcoholic beverages after intermission, but you must admit that being unable to buy only alcohol around the time when everyone is driving home, is a bit strange.
However, please don't think I'm kicking up a fuss and looking up various authorities to report this to - I'm not. I just got the impression from your post that you think all us non-drinkers are self-righteous and whiny. We're not all like that. And I can firmly get on board with the idea that this is only the 2nd year it's happened, and the first time no one spoke up, but now someone has everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon going "yeah our rights are surely being impinged upon somehow!" (this message board surely doesn't seem to bring out the best in people) and I'm confident that now it's been mentioned, it'll change.

This is a very verbose way of saying: It's happened more than has been mentioned, even though I'm discussing it I'm not complaining, hoping it gets sorted next year, please don't hate all us non-drinkers.


Point taken Le anne
Author: jmuzz
Date: 30/01/2009 - 15:50
jmuzz's picture

I certainly have nothing against non-drinkers and you don't come off as self-righteous and whiny - quite the opposite in fact. What I took issue with was the TONE of tee-totaller's post AFTER there had been both an apology and explanation. I'm aware it's happened two years running - last year they didn't serve non-alcoholic beverage until the interval by which time we had attendees and performers gasping for water. This year I believe they clarified with the venue that non alcoholic drinks would be served before the interval only to have them shut down service AFTER the interval. Seems you can't win.
Apologies if my post upset you. I trust you can take from what I'm saying that I wasn't suggesting non-drinkers whinge a lot. I simply think some people have rather enjoyed making Kimberley and the ITA squirm on this issue because they're the sort of people who used to pull the wings off flys as children. That's why I won't withdraw the post. I hate bullies.


Leanne
Author: Kimberley
Date: 30/01/2009 - 16:45

I am a non drinker too and although I was not on the committee "last year" I was aware of the problem and we did try to address it. We spent probably a good hour of committee meeting time addressing it and making contingency plans if the kiosk was not to be open.
Lets go into details, as people are not settling for "We're sorry."
The committee member talking to the venue either misunderstood our instructions or misunderstood what the venue said to her because the instruction the bulk of the committee received was - "Don't worry about the back up plans, the kiosk will stay open." (The venue didn't say that- but this is what our lovely lady thought. Although she looks like an angel and has an angelic personality she is in fact human and fallible.)
Yes. We stuffed up. Again, we are sorry. I had done a lot of running around that night. I would have loved a Coke myself.


so by that logic...
Author: Norma
Date: 26/01/2009 - 11:06

Quote: "So by that logic above why have paid adjudicator(s) for DramaFest.

We have ONE paid Adjudicator for DramaFest, so therefore it is a one-off payment. If we had  to pay 4 professional  adjudicators for the whole year simple arithmetic should give you the answer!

And I do wish people would cease casting slurs on those dedicated people who put their hands up to become Adjudicators. ENOUGH!!


Adjudicators
Author: jeffhansen
Date: 26/01/2009 - 11:34
jeffhansen's picture

I think those who put their hands up to be adjudicators, must either

1. Love the theatre.
2. Be social philanthropists who want to give their all to theatre
or
3. Be crazy

These (currently) 4 people see most of the 50+ productions entered throughout the year, not for pleasure, but to sit in judgement. I can only imagine that it is a much different experience to watch a play for the purpose of producing an adjudication, than to watch it for enjoyment.
I'm guessing they sit through some appalling productions throughout the year as well - no leaving at interval for these people.
To Kerri, Ken, Graeme and Sue, thanks for your efforts over the last 12 months, and I look forward to seeing Kerri and 3 new faces at the theatre during 2009.

www.meltheco.org.au


 26/01/2009 - 11:37 Josephine Mittra (not verified) I'm not casting slurs on
The simple answer
Author: jmuzz
Date: 27/01/2009 - 10:28
jmuzz's picture

The simple answer to that question Josephine is that there are full length plays running at some clubs over that weekend that require adjudication by the ITA adjudicators.
The other answer is that the adjudicators deserve some time away from adjudicating everything and to ask them to sit through 3 packed days of one act plays and a Youth fest on top of what they've already done is a bit steep.
The third answer is that the One Act festival provides the chance for Jarrod and Kerri to workshop possible future ITA adjudicators by having them sit in on certain plays, adjudicate, and from there provide those "adjudicators in training" feedback and coaching on their adjudication. (that's long-winded I know but I think you get the idea).
The fourth answer is that the existing adjudicators can pick up ideas on technique and feedback from a professional - it's always a good idea to take a step back and aharpen your skills by looking at how others operate in the same environment who may have had a deal more experience.
As regards the Southwest festival, that's run by Bunbury Little Theatre and isn't an ITA event so that's your answer as regards that particular venture.
Hope this helps Smiling


I was actually suggesting
Author: Josephine Mittra (not verified)
Date: 27/01/2009 - 11:02

I was actually suggesting different adjudicators for DramaFest, not necessarily the same Finley Award judges. That would avoid some of the problems you've noted above.


Nice idea Jospehine
Author: jmuzz
Date: 27/01/2009 - 13:41
jmuzz's picture

I guess the problem is that the ITA have a helluva task getting just 4 people to be adjudicators. Getting additional people to volunteer may prove very difficult.
I still like having a professional as adjudicator for that particular festival for some of the other reasons I've outlined (a chance to skill up potential adjudicators, etc).
I'm not sure what you mean by 'problems' - there certainly isn't any problem with Dramafest that I can see and as regards the Finley awards and the barbs aimed at the adjudicator panel and Kerri in particular it seems clear these came from a few tiny-minded people who haven't learned to play nicely in the adult world. That's the prerogative of those people I guess and that seems to be the only problem. It wouldn't be fixed if we had a panel of entirely different adjudicators - those people would still complain and use words such as 'bias' because they didn't get their own way. That's human nature and we ain't got a cure for it.

Anyway, I digress - I think the use of a professional at Dramafest works well and the revenue raised from the festival more than covers the adjudicator fee.
Given Dramafest has historically operated on a reasonably healthy profit, there is money to kick toward the cost of other ITA ventures such as the Finley awards but I DON'T accept that payment of an adjudicator at Dramafest should be dropped in favour of boosting the bottom-line profit simply to supplement other ITA initiatives such as the Finleys. Let those aspects of the ITA look after themselves because we can't always bank on Dramafest making a profit every year.
If we look at the ITA as a business model, any part of that model that suffers financially (and I'm not suggesting the Finleys do) should be looked at closely and the fees associated with that part of the venture raised to cover costs. That's good financial management.
If there is any part of the ITA finances that I would like to see supplemented by any retained profits made from it's festivals, it would be the administrative side which, with raising of rents and insurance premiums in recent years, is skyrocketing. That would at least mean that any increase in club subscription fees to the ITA could be kept as low as possible. As a former treasurer that's my opinion anyway.
To sum up, I guess I'm of the opinion that if it ain't broke, it don't need fixing.


 27/01/2009 - 15:06 Eric Mackie (not verified) There shouldn't be one rule
That would make sense IF
Author: JustSuse
Date: 27/01/2009 - 17:13
JustSuse's picture

Your argument that ' There shouldn't be one rule for one act plays and another for full length plays' would make sense if they were both part of the same competition - but they're not. They are two totally different things.
Try reading Muzza's postings again. He has already explained very clearly and succintly what the difficulties are.
The other point that no-one has made as yet is that having someone from the world of professional theatre adjudicating the Dramafest gives them a chance to see who's around in amateur theatre that might be worth considering for a professional role with one of their companies, and it gives us, as amateurs, a chance to make some contacts with those in the professional arena.


Read my post again
Author: jmuzz
Date: 27/01/2009 - 17:36
jmuzz's picture

Did you not read what I said Eric?
I clearly explained that the Dramafest weekend is used as a training ground for budding adjudicators. You don't just wake up one morning and say "I think I'd like to adjudicate" and you're suddenly blessed with the skills to do so. It takes mentoring and what better than to have past or present adjudicators and the benefit of a professional's eye and their commentary to gain that experience.
I would also like to challenge you on your assertion that more people are likely to volunteer if it's only a weekend. The sad fact is that although we offer people the opportunity to show their interest in becoming adjudicators by attending the course at Dramafest, the numbers are very thin on the ground. As a generalisation I'd say that when you ask people to volunteer for any role that isn't onstage, you're often struggling to find volunteers. As proof of this, look no further than Kerri. You all seem to think the poor lady clings to power desperately. The ONLY reason Kerri remains an adjudicator is because there aren't a plethora of volunteers. And, if they're only willing to give up a weekend, how good could they be? You only get good at something by doing it time and again. If you'd be happy to have someone rock up with no ongoing experience and adjudicate your performance, I'm happy for you. You would be in the minority I'd suspect.

As for you saying "Business that say "we've always done it that way" are usually the ones that end up failing.", that irks me. The best businesses are those that have tried or considered other ways of doing things and have learned from their past mistakes. I politely suggest that that is how the ITA has arrived at the process it follows and it's constantly under review as highlighted by the changes to the Finley Awards format this year. If you want to fire around facts then consider this. 2 thirds of businesses fail within the first 12 - 18 months. The ITA has been around for a number of years. I myself have worked in finance for 25 years and in my professional opinion, there ain't a lot I'd do differently. The ITA also benefits from having a qualified accountant resident on it's committee and with any luck he might be on the committee this year as well.
The thing that irks me is that you haven't rebutted with anything factual or challenging to my comments. No offense Eric but I think you need to read my posts again.
Cheers


Oh...and another thing....
Author: jmuzz
Date: 27/01/2009 - 17:45
jmuzz's picture

Why not? Why can't we use different ways of adjudicating full length and one act plays? I haven't heard of one club complaining about that process and the clubs ARE the ITA.
I've already promulgated the reasons why but it strikes me as amusing that the ITA is accused of being set in it's ways when this is an obvious example of diversification.
Hey, if you would like to ask the adjudicators to do the One Act Festival as well, be my guest. Given that some of them already help (Kerri often acts as "minder/gopher" for the adjudicator) and others like to relax and actually watch plays without having to write a dissertation, I wish you luck.
Seeing as we don't pay them to give up their long weekend, I can guess what the answer may be and who could blame them.

Happy to address any cogent arguments on the topic but I think/hope I've addressed the issues raised.


ITA AGM
Author: LORNA MACKIE
Date: 31/01/2009 - 16:44
LORNA MACKIE's picture

Note, these are my personal comments, not on behalf of it ITA committee -

Just to reiterate to everyone that the ITA exits for it's members, and the committee is comprised of volunteers from the Perth theatre community, as are the adjudicators. Quite simply, if you disagree with the way something is being done, get up and do something about it. That means AT A MINIMUM being willing to either put your name to a comment (thanks to those of you who have the strength of conviction to do so), but better yet, come along to the ITA AGM in February.

Please, healthy, constructive debate is welcomed, and more so people who are willing to put their money and/or time where their mouth is and get involved. No organisation in the world universally agrees, and it is through a process of ongoing debate that things evolve and hopefully get better. Just to be crystal clear, slandering people for their opinions does not constitute "healthy, constructive debate".

Furthermore, for those of you that are questioning the adjudication methods applied, the ITA ran a series of adjudication courses this year, which were open to everyone that wanted to attend. These courses had the dual aims of attempting to inform and train potential adjudicators, but also to clarify the adjudication system for those that wanted to listen. How many of you that are claiming the adjudications were unfair or biased actually attended these sessions provided? Maybe if you had you might understand how the adjudications are arrived at a little better, as there is obviously a lot of confusion about how the results are achived.


ITA AGM
Author: Norma
Date: 31/01/2009 - 17:41

Well said Lorna,

And, please note all critics,  it is the ITA who negotiated the Ignite grant of four hundred thousand dollars for local community theatres to improve facitities etc. 

What did  all you critics do to help??


 03/02/2009 - 09:51 Walters Minge (not verified) well clearly the ITA dont
If you're referring to the related thread.....
Author: jmuzz
Date: 03/02/2009 - 10:35
jmuzz's picture

....I suspect it was deleted because Grant was advised that failure to do so may result in legal action. Whatever the reasons, it has nothing to do with the ITA.
Grant, could you clarify?

If you're referring to this thread, read on anyway.

I suggest you seek clarification before you dump on the ITA. Given the ITA seems to be the blame for everything bar the Global Credit Crisis (and I'm sure there is a Walter or two who is working to prove a link) the question needs asking - If you think the ITA is doing things wrong, what alternative structure would you suggest (practical suggestions only please), why aren't you volunteering to become part of the committee to see in your brave new vision for the community theatre future, and why don't you feel so strongly about your ideas that you are prepared to actually put your name to them?

People complain that their "ideas" are dismissed or shot down by the "ITA" on this website, that they aren't taken seriously, that there is a clique conspiracy.
For a start, the ITA doesn't run this site - any Walter can post (which is rapidly proving to be it's undoing). The ITA neither monitors or moderates any of the comments. Removal of any comments is solely the responsibility of the non-ITA appointed web administrator who is VERY loathe to delete anything as he believes it discourages free speech.

However, seeing as you have spoken, how can ANYONE take you seriously if you aren't prepared to put your name to your ideas? How can anyone believe you're not just another faceless trouble-making Walter? That's your problem, not the ITAs or anyone elses. It was YOUR decision.

Y'see what separates those who have identities behind their handle and are prepared to display them from the Walters of this world is that they seem (as a general rule) to be less inclined to fire off smart-arse one-liners. They seem to be the very people who actually put in and do the work in community theatre as opposed to sitting back and saying grandly "You're doing it all wrong!".

So, here's a tip - want to taken seriously? Put your name up there in lights and make your argument cogent and constructive. I'll be the FIRST to defend you and your right to say whatever you want to.....as long as it's put politely, sensibly and you have the courage of your convictions.
With regard that related thread, David Wilding had every right to say what he said....right up until he took an emotive pot-shot at someone. It wasn't needed - he could have made his argument without doing that. That was rude and it deserved the scorn it got and made everything else he said seem open to question.

With regard your post - "clearly the ITA don't want feedback and constructive criticism" - y'see, emotive, incorrect, and unsupported. You didn't seek clarification, your suspicions are wrong because the ITA doesn't run the site, and it therefore makes you sound like you have an axe to grind and no real argument to bring.

There are plenty of people here willing to listen to you - just ground your comments in fact, not fantasy. Seek clarification in need but don't get on your high horse and deliver a spray unless you've thought it through first.


First of all I think I may
Author: Logos
Date: 03/02/2009 - 15:18
Logos's picture

First of all I think I may have killed the other thread. I didn't mean to. (That sounds weak doesn't it.) I expressed an opinion using my moderating field and the whole damn thing disappeared. It must have been teetering on the brink. If I need to apologise to someone please accept this as my apology.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au


No Tony, it wasnt you,
Author: Robert Whyte
Date: 03/02/2009 - 16:40

No Tony, it wasnt you, there were other hands at work there.


Popping bubbles
Author: Grant Malcolm
Date: 03/02/2009 - 21:36

Hate to pop your bubbles Jmuzz and Robert but Logos is entirely correct.

Logos' vote last night was sufficient to tip the DavidWilding39 post into oblivion. 

For those that are interested, there's a complex weighting system in place for votes. A post starts with a certain number of points depending on whether it was contributed by a new member, a contributor, editor or admin. A range of positive and negative vote values are available when moderating. Votes from the members with various roles also vary in value. The value of all votes is added together. If a post has sufficient votes, its score may eventually reach a threshold where the post is promoted to the home page. However, if it is given negative votes, as with the DavidWilding39 post, it can be voted out of existence.

I should probably provide a little barometer that lets people know when a post or comment is about to disappear or be promoted and then you can decide whether you want your vote to tip it one way or the other.... hmmm....

Jmuzz wrote:
> For a start, the ITA doesn't run this site -
> any Walter can post (which
is rapidly proving to be
> it's undoing). The ITA neither monitors or
moderates
> any of the comments. Removal of any comments is
> solely the
responsibility of the non-ITA appointed web
> administrator who is VERY
loathe to delete anything as
> he believes it discourages free speech.

Strictly speaking Jmuzz is correct that the ITA has little if anything to do with the administration of this site. While I originally developed this site nearly 11 years ago to further some of the objectives of the ITA, the particular objectives in question were always bigger and broader than the ITA membership itself and the site reflects this broader scope. 

However, while I support freedom of expression, I don't regard myself as an advocate of speech free from responsibility. While I argue occasionally for tolerance of alternative views and modes of expression, my reasons for only deleting content in response to specific and particular complaints and not deleting anything at a personal whim are far more practical. Like the disclaimer says, if you post it - it's your responsibility. If you don't like something someone says here, complain to me and I'll remove it. That's a responsibility I'm willing to fulfill.

In case a very few people were too busy whinging about awards to notice, there's an awful lot of other productive and useful things happening on this site. In the past week alone 42 new events and topics and more than 180 comments were added! That's about thirty new things per day.

So enough of this. Go and join a useful thread:

http://www.theatre.asn.au/billboard_bulletins/10_things_i_love_about_the_ita

Smiling

Cheers
Grant

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website


Responsible posting
Author: crgwllms
Date: 07/02/2009 - 05:04
crgwllms's picture

It's probably just a well that a post with such a negative response has been removed from the site, although it made it quite confusing when I was trying to search for the thread to refer to something. (and what then is the point of my filter setting which allows me to see 'all the rubbish'?)

But something I find odd about it is that knowing the post CAN be voted into obscurity actually lessens the responsibility anyone has to post considerately, and puts all the onus on the readers.

If you knew every stupid thing you wrote would remain here to warn people from ever taking you seriously, that in itself is a form of moderation.

Cheers,
Craig

~<8>-/====\---------


All care
Author: Grant Malcolm
Date: 07/02/2009 - 08:45

crgwllms enquired:
> what then is the point of my filter setting which
> allows me to see 'all the rubbish'?

Occasionally, when it's really smelly, we take out the trash. 

Smiling

> knowing the post CAN be voted into obscurity
> actually lessens the
responsibility anyone has to
> post considerately, and puts all the onus
on the readers

I don't entirely agree. The community frequenting the site has no choice in what individuals caused to be published here.

There can be no question that the person posting a message is responsible for causing that information to be posted.

Does the fact that others may eventually pick up my rubbish and put it in the bin lessen my responsibility for littering?

The only _requirement_ on readers is that if they see something they regard as illegal, unauthorised or defamatory, they make a complaint to me.

> If you knew every stupid thing you wrote would
> remain here to warn
people from ever taking you
> seriously, that in itself is a form of
moderation.

If only all people lived such considered and self aware lives! 

I regularly receive requests from people upset to discover that something they posted here long ago comes up in Google when they're ego-surfing and demand that I look up and remove all references to them. It's a little like having a letter to the editor of the paper published and then demanding that the letter be unpublished.

"Yes, I wrote it and that is my name but I no longer want to be associated with what I wrote."

Far better, as crgwllms suggests, to think carefully about everything you write - particularly on the Internet.

Thank you Craig.

Regards
Grant

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website


Ha ha ha....and oops
Author: jmuzz
Date: 03/02/2009 - 23:14
jmuzz's picture

I'm sorry Logos....I'm not laughing at you but as theatre Australias defender of free speech it is (c'mon, you gotta admit it) ironic that your vote tipped the whole thread into oblivion. That is the funniest thing I've read on here in God knows how long.....and I'm really sorry I'm laughing about it...."snigger". A refreshing tipple of your choice sir for daring to laugh at your discomfort but you gotta admit....damn funny!!! There is hope for this site yet.
Aw c'mon Tony....it's bloody funny and u know it!!!!

(wipes tears from his eyes)

Thanks for clarifying Grant.
Y'see folks, it was an eastern stater with clumsy fingers - nothing more. No conspiracy. Ah, I'm wasting my breath. In 90's speak - the Mulders will have their theories. Logos is undoubtedly on the ITA payroll as a thread assassin.
Bwah-hahahahahahahaha.

Sorry for suggesting it may be something more but at least I sought clarification. Take heed Walter unlimited


Thanks Grant,I think its
Author: Robert Whyte
Date: 04/02/2009 - 02:36

Thanks Grant,

I think its bloody funny also, considering the pathetic way the thread was started to begin with.

Logos, if you ever come to Perth I will buy you a drink for making my year.

Cheers all

Robert Smiling


Indeed
Author: Logos
Date: 04/02/2009 - 07:13
Logos's picture

Gee shucks folks

(Takes Ironic bow to left and right while blowing kisses to his admiring fans)

I admit it is mildly ironic that I should be the one to destroy a thread. I rarely moderate although I did another one this morning. and it was actually one of the stupider posts I meant to moderate. I went back up to read the original post again and must have moderated without thinking went back and "Hey Presto"

Oh well. I will be more careful in future.
I decided to identify myself in order to divert any more attacks on Kerry Hilton or any of the rest of you. It would have been cowardly to not take the heat myself.

If any of you make it to Adelaide for the Fringe and care to attend my show "Boiled Cabbage" I will happily share a tipple with you at the local hostelry which happens to be less than a minutes walk from my theatre.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au


Sorry, I'm a little
Author: devils advocate
Date: 06/02/2009 - 07:09

Sorry, I'm a little slow...the finleys are awards given to those partaking in Community Theatre?


That is correct. And there
Author: Apostle Trophy (not verified)
Date: 06/02/2009 - 07:37

That is correct. And there should be an apostrophe in "devil's".


Apostle's advocate
Author: crgwllms
Date: 07/02/2009 - 04:44
crgwllms's picture

Why? Can't you advocate for several devils? And not necessarily belong to them, singular or plural?

There are plenty of devils around here who'll argue against you.

Cheers,
Craig

~<8>-/====\---------


If there were several, the
Author: Apostle Trophy (not verified)
Date: 07/02/2009 - 08:05

If there were several, the apostrophe would come after the S.


Sympathy for the Devils
Author: crgwllms
Date: 09/02/2009 - 08:38
crgwllms's picture

Yes, I'm aware of that, but only if the advocacy belonged to the devils, plural.

And like you said, there should be an apostrophe before the 's' if it belonged to the devil, singular.

But you can be someone who advocates for devils without being the advocate that belongs to any of them, in which case no apostrophe is necessary.

Or like me, you might enjoy being a devil while advocating, in which case no 's' is necessary either.

Cheers,
The devil advocate.

~<8>-/====\---------


Advocating responsible drinking
Author: Freddie Badgery
Date: 09/02/2009 - 13:09
Freddie Badgery's picture

And for when all you advocating devils like to get tiddly, why not try a bottle of:

Devils Advocaat!

Yes, only Devil's Advocaat leaves you feeling like a dark prince all night long.

freddie
the rocking jedi badger


goes well with devilled
Author: Don Callison
Date: 09/02/2009 - 17:44

goes well with devilled avocado


an apostrophe? why did you
Author: devils advocate
Date: 06/02/2009 - 22:11

an apostrophe? why did you feel it necessary to say that?


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