To be the literal fulcrum here, the difference between Pro and not Pro is not location or cast. It is the difference between funding and payment. I.e. if all the cast/crew are being paid it is "professional". If part are being paid, it is usually termed Pro-Am. If they are all in it for the thrill of being in it, it is Community of Am theatre.

Mind you, the difference between Professional and non-profession very often has absolutely nothing to do with quality.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins
Perth based Actor/Performer
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Disclaimer : I don't live in WA but address this issue as a general one across Australia.
What makes it stop being Community Theatre?
It is still the same people doing it (with the possible exception of some of the technical crew) and presumably no-one is getting paid (although I would dearly like to actually look at the books on some of these productions). The scale does not in my opinion change the definition. A pro show is one in which the cast and crew are all working members of the industry who are either paid for their efforts or who receive a pay out as part of a co op. (Unless the co op doesn't make any money.)
In Adelaide with the exception of The Hill Musical Society and SALOS all musicals are put on in spaces that I would call Professional Theatres. I.E They have full time professional paid staff running them as Management and technical. This does not mean that Northern Light Theatre Co, The Metropolitan Light Opera, The Gilbert and Sullivan Society, Marie Clarke Theatre Co or Therry are pro companies. They are not, they are community theatre and they should be proud of it.
While we are here why have I seen MS Society productions on peoples CV's as Professional shows. They aren't.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
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We discussed this recently in another thread... where.... I can't remember. Possibly in one of the review threads, or something.

I agree entirely with Labrug. Pro is usually defined as to how the money is dealt with (cast and crew are given wages, or take part of the profits), and am. is usually defined as the money going directly back into the community group to pay for future productions (or in fact, to pay for other community services).

It's not about the venue, it's about the mindset. Those in amateur (on a long-term basis) see it more as a hobby, or something to do in their spare time. Professionals see it as a career choice, one in which they hope to be paid for.

I have known a great many pro companies working in 'amateur' venues (those less equipped than others), and vice versa. But indeed, pro companies work in 'amateur' facilities all the time: street theatre, non-traditional venues, performing on trams and in train stations... I know of one group that performed in the two front seats of a car, with three audience members sitting in the back for each show.

It's definitely not about the venue.

(Now someone go hunt for that thread I was thinking of!)

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Got it:

http://www.theatre.asn.au/musicals_and_opera/is_it_normal_to_be_charged_a_bond_in_amateur_musicals

My post dated: Fri, 23/11/2007 - 17:25

Sticky Apple Legs
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Just a few comments on the initial posting...

Hal Leonard (did I get that right?) who have the rights to "Beauty & The Beast" won't permit any Amateur production to be shown at an 'A1' class venue.

I suspect the 'baited question' due to B&tB going on next year here in Perth had dreams of going on at Burswood and the above reason contributed to the change of venue.

The cost of rights increase with a show when it is pro also. And there is naturally other factors...

I'm always curious that some Am companies are doing rather well for themselves. Some are finding new and innovative ways to continue to be classed as Am. And as I read in a recent thread - Am Com Theatre companies are a thriving multi-million dollar industry.

But here's a challenge & proposal.

Essentially many people have their phases of enjoying acting (and thankfully some essential ones do so every spare minute)It is a fabulous platform to improve skills (& enjoy life).

This is less the case with techs & muso's. There's fewer of them around that just want to work for free, and partly due to it being rather stressful. I don't know too many techs that want to mix coz it's fun. And muso's would be in the pub scene if they wanted to perform. (Or barely make it out of the garage for all the beer cans)

So.

Paid techs & muso's (and AD's, MD's & Choreo's) will improve the standard of a show because they really know their stuff. The Am companies that are at the head of the local industry have a responsibility to take it to the next step. Their shows will now train pro-am actors and the ladder of success can continue for individuals. The public are not stupid. They recognize and positively respond to strong productions. MPAC's 2nd week of Beauty & The Beast shows filled on the success of the 1st week. (All above roles were paid - if just a little)It's actually very affordable for many companies to do this. If they do it smart.

The end result is a thriving & healthy industry that is supported by the public.

This has little to do with the original post but I'm including it on the chance that committees can grasp the vision and help build local theatre into an industry that they themselves will thoroughly enjoy!

...come on, let's keep dancing...

Luke

"The cost of rights increase with a show when it is pro also."

This is actually incorrect, Pro rights are much much lower than Amateur rights, and that is because they expect more bums on seats, and higher budgets.

I could be wrong Na, but last time I was talking to someone at Dominie at a symposium the question was raised to the licencing agents Dominie and at that time Warner Chappel and they actually said that pro rights were less. But as I said, happy to be wrong on this.

Cal

Don't let the Bastards Get You down.

I can't help really except to say that pro royalties on most book shows are a simple percentage which generally works out less than the ever increasing amount that is charged by the night for amateurs.
I don'tvreally know for musicals at all.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au