Paying fees to join an agency - adults & children

brilliantsybilla | 15/01/2009 - 12:27

Have just been reading a lot of old threads about good and bad agents and paying upfront fees etc and as an agent myself I thought I'd post in and clarify a few things.

Yes there are good and bad agents and I'm sure there are already posts about what to look for in an agent. The problem that many of you are going to find is that a "good" agent is not going to take a chance on someone who has little or no experience or who has not completed three years training at an accredited institution. Some actors do manage to create a career out of sheer determination and undertaking lots of short courses - but it is not easy.

What many performers don't seem to understand is that an agent wants to make money out of the performers on their books. They don't want people sitting there not working - nor do they want to waste time promoting performers who are not going to get work or who are going to require a huge investment of time and energy before they are employable. Of course, this is why the dodgy agencies charge fees - that is how they make their money.

Let me say this once and for all: If you are an ADULT actor and an agency wants to charge you upfront fees - including expensive photo shoots or 'promotional tools' - don't do it. You are better off, if you can’t find a “good” agent to take you on, going freelance. If your agent asks you to join sites such as AT2 or Showcast - they are legitimate casting sites used by most casting agents and you subscribe directly to them - that is not the same thing.

If however you are a child performer, the situation is very different. ALL child agencies charge fees and here is why:
1. They organize photo-shoots for the kids - adult actors are expected to do this themselves.
2. They organize other promotional materials including head-sheet books, website databases etc
3. They undertake all promotion of their artists to casting agents - adult actors are expected to send out their own head-shots and CVs and do a lot of leg-work themselves.
4. Child performers are paid between 50% and 75% of what adult performers are paid - and often much less because they are not seen as "professional" performers.
5. Most child performers are untried and it may take a few years before they gain enough experience and confidence to work reasonably consistently - or to discover that they are really not cut out for the industry at all. Some adult agencies do take on child performers but usually only those who have already proved themselves. Children's agents could not survive without charging up-front fees because there is no way to tell which children will mature into performers and which will fall by the wayside.

Here is how you tell the dodgy children's agents from the good ones:
First, does your child want to be an actor or a model? If they want to be an actor take them to a drama agency. Drama agencies don't do catalogue or catwalk work - they do do television commercials, TV drama and film. Modelling agencies often won't get briefs for film and TV roles, just commercials and photographic work.

Second, if the agency has more than say 200 kids on its books - it is making money out of the up-front fees rather than the commission it receives on work it finds for the kids. Don't go there. There is no incentive for them to find your child work as they have already made their money out of you. If they charge more than a few hundred dollars a year - including your photo-shoot, website listings, head-sheet book etc - don't go there.

I hope that this will help clarify this question for everyone.

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Further Comment
Author: Labrug
Date: 15/01/2009 - 12:41
Labrug's picture

Thank you Row for your re-enforcement of this basic and important issue.

May I just emphasise one portion:

"What many performers don't seem to understand is that an agent wants to make money out of the performers on their books. They don't want people sitting there not working - nor do they want to waste time promoting performers who are not going to get work or who are going to require a huge investment of time and energy before they are employable. Of course, this is why the dodgy agencies charge fees - that is how they make their money."

EXACTLY! A 'dodgy agency wants money off you before you walk in the door because they don't really plan to find you work. You've just paid their bills for that week. Agents that take a fee off what you do earn have a vested interest in finding you work.

Also, thanks for clarifying the difference between Drama and Modelling. Admittedly I think that is one thing that has not been highlighted previously. Mind you, I am personally still a little iffy about Child Upfront Fees. If the parents can provide all that is required then the agent should be able to negate the fee. Don't quote me on this, but I believe that there is a modelling/casting agent in Perth who is flexible in just that way.

My rule of thumb is that if there is ever an upfront fee without valid reason or that can not be negated, question the intentions of the agent.

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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Hi i have just been in
Author: alias (not verified)
Date: 15/01/2009 - 16:14

Hi i have just been in touch with a agency re my son doing commercials etc, and I told them what my son has done, re performing.
They have emailed back and said, if we are interested We would need to pay $50 and they will put him on the books, I think that sounds ok from all the things I have read.

They also said we can supply photos if we like, or they have a photographer than we can get professional shots done, so in my mind they dont sound greedy at all,
and not asking a lot of money

so would you say this is ok to give a try to


Sounds OK
Author: Labrug
Date: 15/01/2009 - 20:00
Labrug's picture

You certainly could do far worse and $50 is not a big ask. The fact that they allow you to provide photos is a very good sign.

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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Thanks would put name but
Author: alias (not verified)
Date: 15/01/2009 - 20:11

Thanks would put name but keeps spitting dummy so I just put alias

thanks for you reply, I thought that to so may give them a go, you dont mind if you find out that they are not good, you are not losing a lot of money,

i loved the fact that you can send your own photos and you are given the choice

see what happens


What agency?
Author: Galdors
Date: 20/01/2009 - 14:31
Galdors's picture

Would you be able to tell me what agency you are talking about? I have just been googling to find some agencies, but I'm having trouble. If anyone can give a couple to look at that'd be very helpful.


Thanks thats what I thought
Author: alias (not verified)
Date: 15/01/2009 - 20:09

Thanks thats what I thought if we found out they were no good then we are not losing much, I have read a lot of your posts about this subject

I you said, that a agent who asks for heaps up front,will have a lot on the books and not bother getting them work
i figured this one charge a small fee, so there for they must have to get you work, to get their money
and yes i loved that they said we could send them photos, nice to know that someone out there could possible be genuine

also they run dancing classes, etc, and know mention of we have to join them but my son is already doing classes else where so it may be that reason, and poss because he is a boy, and not many young lads he is 12 like to perform
which is such a shame. still good for you guys, eh, more parts

thanks for input


ummm...im 14 and am in love
Author: lena :) (not verified)
Date: 18/01/2009 - 16:51

ummm...im 14 and am in love with stage and tv acting im getting an agent soon. i was reccomended by a casting director called wizzy evans and im just wundering how much an agent charges. wizzy tolde me that they gets one third of what i earn from an every part and fifty dollars a year. is this reasonabe? coz i heard that they should be completly free or its not worth it. can you help me???

lena x x x ^^)


What?!?
Author: Labrug
Date: 18/01/2009 - 22:12
Labrug's picture

33% ?!?! That's would be twice what I would accept 15 to 20% is more (as I understand it) the industry standard.

And $50 / year? Alright, $50 is not that much, but combine it with the percentage... Sorry, would not get my vote. They;d have to have a REALLY good track record.

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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Regarding the info:
Author: Keladry (not verified)
Date: 20/01/2009 - 12:11

As a teenaged actor, I'm in the process of signing on to a child's agency that is a branch of a larger, reputable adult's agency. There are no more than 20 or 30 on their books at the moment. $400 and subscriptions to AT2 and Showcast as well as professional photographs are required.

So just to clarify what I've read, for the type of agency I'm joining, that's reasonable, isn't it?


Details
Author: Labrug
Date: 20/01/2009 - 12:33
Labrug's picture

Without more details like who, I would say NO WAY! $400!?!? You have got to be kidding me. What does that include?

Read through the information linked below and get yourself informed of your rights. Sorry, but $400 is not right.

http://www.theatre.asn.au/book_page/agents_and_agencies

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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I'm hesitant to name the
Author: Keladry (not verified)
Date: 20/01/2009 - 19:07

I'm hesitant to name the agency because I feel that it might not be appropriate to, however I can tell you that they are not in the 'black list' on this site of agencies to avoid, and they are registered (thank you for the link, by the way) - both the children's agency and the adult agency.

The $400 covers the cost of representation, including AT2, Showcast and photographs. From what I recall, AT2 child subscriptions are $55 and I'm assuming Showcast similarly so. Therefore it goes down to approximately $300 including photographs.

I know an actor in the adult branch, and the children's one seems reputable. However, is this a reason not to sign on to the agency, considering the cost and what it includes?

Also a side question - it states in the contract that a combined management and agency commission of 15% will be put on the total gross fees payable to me. From what I've read, shouldn't it be capped at 10%? Or is it different since it includes management fees?

Sorry for the torrent of inquiries. I just want to be sure before 'rushing' into this, and I'm still fairly new to the industry itself, prior knowledge aside.


In Queensland a cap of 10%
Author: Logos
Date: 21/01/2009 - 05:05
Logos's picture

In Queensland a cap of 10% applies I believe, but elsewhere 15% is quite normal.
I'm still a bit worried about that $400 even if it does include both AT2 and Showcast. Do you have to pay that every year or is it a one off (except for the AT2 and Showcast stuff which will be annual.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au


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