An idea to deal with bad posters

Na | 03/11/2008 - 21:20

Maybe we could set up our own version of this:

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=WP_UnusualUsers

Where bad users are temporarily banned or completely banned. If you are temporarily banned, you wouldn't be able to reply or add new posts, and maybe be encouraged to either be a better community member or piss off entirely.

At any rate, I thought this would merit some thought.

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The heading made me think
Author: Leanne Summerton (not verified)
Date: 03/11/2008 - 22:07

The heading made me think you were talking about crap posters for different shows.


Ditto
Author: Labrug
Date: 04/11/2008 - 09:29
Labrug's picture

Me thought same...

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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In theory, I like the idea.
Author: jeffhansen
Date: 04/11/2008 - 05:36
jeffhansen's picture

In theory, I like the idea. The downfalls are obvious, though. For something like this to work, you would need to make a couple of major changes to the way the forum works - both of which have been bandied around before.

1 - Registered users only be allowed to post.
2 - A number of Mods to control the forum.

Having said that, most online forums that I am aware of operate this way, and I would have no problem with this one doing the same. I know our administrator has very different views, however, and seems determined to keep this site operating in the same egalitarian way it always has.

www.meltheco.org.au


This has been discussed before
Author: Labrug
Date: 04/11/2008 - 09:53
Labrug's picture

And I think the position of the ITA and the site supporters in general are generally agreed.

The concept of banning posters is in theory, very attractive. It is, however, somewhat more difficult to implement this in practise. The difficulties rest in the following;

  • Requires high level of security when registering - formal identification through checking procedures
  • Being able to uniquely tag users so that when banned they do not have avenues to sign-up under a different identity
  • Being able to restrict users to a single sign-on account
  • Having a legally tight policy of User Removal and a strict set of guidelines to adhere to, lest one gets sued for defamation
  • The time, cost and effort in establishing such a system as well as the addition resource required to monitor and maintain it
  • Having all of the above while still maintaining an open policy which is the essences of the ITA's Web Site
  • Others I haven't yet thought of

Registration will do nothing to hinder those that are intent on disruption. Banning them is but a hurdle they will have to jump and only serves to give a short reprieve at most. There are a number of extremely closed groups where moderation and banning are implemented and interestingly enough, they are far more abrasive, abusive, slanderous and troll-like than this site has ever been.

I personally would not want to risk the open door policy that makes this site so great for a complex and potential legal minefield that a more secured site would offer. This site has demonstrated time and time again to be a fantastic place to find old colleagues, new theatres, interesting discussions, lively debates and generally a vibrant theatrical culture. If a small number of antagonists make their noise from time to time, then isn't that a small price to pay?

Now that moderation and voting is getting used to more reasonable capacities, the overall level of disruption and nonsense has dropped right off. This site is for the fans and now is truly by the fans. It is now working as it should.

In finalising my soap-box stand, I will restate that the POV of the admin and creators of this site have been made clear many times - they are unlikely to change that stance anytime soon. What good it would do to change is unclear anyway. Banning users is somewhat more complex than it may first appear and would possibly work to the detriment of this site. Current security facilities, previously under-utilised, are now maintaining content levels. Overall, I think we have it pretty good just the way things are.

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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I understand all the points
Author: Na
Date: 04/11/2008 - 11:31

I understand all the points made. I just thought it was an interesting way of dealing with that sort of thing and that it was worth mentioning.

Round head foam puppet pattern at
Puppets in Melbourne


Fair enough
Author: Labrug
Date: 04/11/2008 - 11:45
Labrug's picture

Eye-wink Reading though my post, I was probably lecturing to much. Teacher

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

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Nah... I'm just a little
Author: Na
Date: 04/11/2008 - 11:55

Nah... I'm just a little off in my own world at the moment. Don't mind me Nuts

Round head foam puppet pattern at
Puppets in Melbourne


My only comment on all this
Author: Logos
Date: 04/11/2008 - 11:56
Logos's picture

My only comment on all this is that the site has been strangely quiet and strangely well behaved for rather a long time. No trolls as such but also no spirited discussion and statements of opinion. Where are the debates and arguments?
Where have you all gone?

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au


Maybe my recent explosion
Author: Na
Date: 04/11/2008 - 12:35

Maybe my recent explosion sent them running away... we can only hope.

It could also be it's nearing the end of the year and people have better things to worry about. Like Christmas bonuses.... or some other thing.

Round head foam puppet pattern at
Puppets in Melbourne


What's on???
Author: jeffhansen
Date: 04/11/2008 - 16:19
jeffhansen's picture

Hmmm...... I borrow Labrug's soapbox, stand on it, take a good look around at what has been on in Perth theatre lately, and note a (mostly) distinct absence of shows with a large Generation Y cast.

You do the math.

www.meltheco.org.au


Well, it's uni exams at the
Author: Louisa Fitzhardinge
Date: 04/11/2008 - 16:38
Louisa Fitzhardinge's picture

Well, it's uni exams at the moment, which Gen-Y-based companies tend to schedule their shows around. Although surely that makes Gen-Y-ers more likely to procrastinate on forums.

Case in point.

---
Louisa Fitzhardinge
University Dramatic Society
http://uds.asn.au


Registration!
Author: Louisa Fitzhardinge
Date: 04/11/2008 - 16:35
Louisa Fitzhardinge's picture

I agree that there should be an enforced registration system in place. It's not all that hard to tap in an email address, username and password, and as Jeff said, most forums require registration. It's nice to be able to talk to someone (even if you only know their handle) as opposed to an onslaught of faceless Walters who are not accountable for their postings.

As for users having multiple accounts - as long as we can restrict it to one account per email address, it should be fine. It may not completely stop people from posting when banned, but at least they have to go to the effort of acquiring a bunch of Hotmail addresses if they spam the forums.

---
Louisa Fitzhardinge
University Dramatic Society
http://uds.asn.au


Freedom
Author: Labrug
Date: 04/11/2008 - 19:10
Labrug's picture

While I personally do not wish to diminish the pros to increased security,
the big plus that this site has is that is does not restrict users, much.

It already is such that only Registered users can start threads, post Book
Pages/FAQ, use private mail services, post events, group details, write blogs,
etc, etc.

However, that ability to comment on posts has been left open which means you
do not have to register, for those squeamish users or those who don't want the
hassle of remembering yet another password, setting up account details, so
on..., to contribute in some way.

Yes this opens the door to abusers and Trolls, and that is why there is a
moderation system which is yet another benefit to registration. As long as
there are enough registered users using the voting and moderation services to
vote up as well as down, then non-constructive Trolling will be get to a
minimum, probably more so than with compulsory Registration.

Registration that links to a single address will not stop Trolls and getting
your hands on a number of Hotmail, Yahoo, Gmail and a multitude of other Free
Web Email accounts is far easier than you might think. Even so, the truly
dedicated Troll won't need to get numerous email accounts when they would more
likely generate a list of Email Aliases that eventually lead back to the same
account anyway.

Registration is not a bad thing, it just goes against the designs of the
site and while it may partly solve the problem, would also turn many other
users away who have the right to not want to register. The theatrical Community
should (IMHO) be an open one, and as such this site should embody that concept
as it does.

Moderation used properly is a far better solution although nothing will ever
completely remove the ugly Trolls that are just as much a part of the internet
as Spam is a part of daily emails.

Also, I feel I should point out that there is already extensive security on
this site that filters out a mass of spam, hack-bots, offensive IP addresses,
and so on. This list is maintained by the site Admin and is regularly updated
through both manual and automated processes. Spam catchers filter out much of
what gets posted and the number of Guest Users that are often listed are mainly
these spammers and bots trying to find a way in.

Having very limited access to some of this monitoring as I do, I can tell
you that there is so much trying to get through that we will never see. With
the amount of work that is currently being done on this site in order to
provide the level of open access, I would be tempted to say that there is far
more to it than simply having enforced registration. In fact, I feel that Grant
and the ITA have really pick the harder road to run, and I for one can
appreciate the amount of effort involved.

Enforced Registration is really the easy way out. Hmm... how did that soap box get back under my feet?

Absit invidia (and DFT No no no)

Jeff Watkins

Home Page
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Na's right!
Author: Grant Malcolm
Date: 04/11/2008 - 21:03

Something like the Whirlpool sin bin can work very well - when you have 254,848 members, 14,337 visiting daily, and a substantial team of moderators.

Smiling

Our community is somewhat more modest in size.

Labrug's largely right too. I don't know that the ITA has had much to do with it, but moderation by the community is far more effective than requiring registration at encouraging constructive contribution and limiting exposure to rubbish.

Regards
Grant 

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website


Glad I'm at least half
Author: Na
Date: 04/11/2008 - 22:33

Glad I'm at least half right. 50/50 chance of that happening Sticking out tongue

Round head foam puppet pattern at
Puppets in Melbourne


missing
Author: Neville Talbot
Date: 06/11/2008 - 12:31
Neville Talbot's picture

I don't know about anyone else, but I have been too blimmin busy to go near the site.
To be honest, I was suprised how little craziness there was.

But I hope that as stuff eases off, I might get back to checking stuff out. Even have a couple of reviews to submit.

But maybe everyone is busy as well...?

Nev

It's the simple things stupid...


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