I would always trust a puppet.

"I am young, female, willing to learn, my friends and drama teachers think I'm really talented, I have horses and I dance and I will do ANYTHING to get into acting. Here's my e-mail address and phone number. Call me."

- A PUPPET would never attempt to take advantage of anyone who posted such a naieve and innexperienced advertisement.

Na, in my opinion, is doing a great service to all such advert posters on this website. It's not about discouraging people from 'having a go', it's about protecting vulnerable novices from being 'got at'.

Na, you have my total support.

Tulipa.

the difference between your offerings and other's arguments is that your stuff is consice and makes much more sense Na. Nicely put.

Absit invidia

Jeff Watkins

Home Page
Yahoo Blog Page

There are any number of threads about how to improve the site. Very few people actually get involved in the discussion, and even fewer people actually do something about it.

The broken record is usually those people who complain, and choose not to actively participate in making the changes necessary.

And I ask you: you say you want change? Care to be more specific? There are any number of things that could be changed, and being ambiguous about it only proves my point.

As for the Nazi references, can we please not. I personally find it offensive.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

Change starts within. I get the feeling by the tone of things this isn't the forum for enlightened and open minded discussion. Anything new to the old world order is certainly not welcomed here.

You can now look at pictures of the surface of mars on your laptop. It wasn't so long ago people believed the world was flat.

Why would someone want to talk with them.

What are you actually talking about.
Things have been a bit subdued lately partly because of the problems with the site migration and of course most people are largely interested in promoting their work getting reviews and then arguing about the reviews but I would never have said that this site was not open to new ideas.
Are you suggesting that Na's comments about finding work and an agent are hidebound. If so then why not state your own case. Provided you are open to critiscism then we will all be interested. if you feel that critiscism is simply a case of the old guard defending itself then perhaps you should go somewhere else.
I own a piece of real estate on Mars (at least I have a certificate that says I do) but I fail to see your point.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au

I'm sorry I don't have time to explain but you're 100% right, I do think the critiscism here is mostly a case of the old guard defending. And yes it is lots of fun arguing but pointless for all sorts of reasons. And your 100% right again, it is better to go elsewhere or in my case do something better otherwise I run the risk of turning into another Walter. If you really feel Na's proposal for a better future is the way to go then support her. In the meantime I hope your investment on Mars yield lots of fruit in the future.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing

If anyone would actually care to add some alternative writings on the topic of advising new and emerging artists, then I will support it 100%.

So far, no one has done so. That is my criticism. I'm not defending my post, if someone has a more informative piece of writing, then I'll take mine down without argument.

Problem is, I can't support something, or criticise it, if it's not there to begin with.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

I'd be happy to provide info on how to.. for puppeteers - I already do much of that on my site. However, my expertise does not lie in all of the arts, and I'm not about to write a how to in those areas.

Anybody else is welcome to. I know my limitations, and that's why the post's info is limited to theatre (you'll notice there's very little in there about film/TV - that's because I don't do it).

I'm not sure whether other people would be interested in a painting one - people come here because it's Theatre Australia, not Arts Australia. You may want to read who set the site up and why; and why the site gets the Top 10 website for the arts for however many years in a row...

I personally don't see what the need is for 'increasing' the base, when there are more than 10 000 registered members and god knows how many anon. people.

I have always loved the idea of creating a 'bible' of information for the arts, but it always comes down to one thing: who's going to volunteer their time to do all the writing. It's extremely time-consuming. But hey, if you want to have a go, I'm not going to stop you.

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Puppets in Melbourne

First I'm accused of providing information and being a 'know all'. Then when I suggest that I'm not the most knowledgeable person about an industry I've never worked in I'm "copping out".

It only proves my point that people are more than willing to complain, and not willing to help share the load.

Perhaps I'm not "trying" because I don't want to write uninformed trash and then be accused of being ignorant. This isn't my website, it's our website.

I said I'd support it, not that it would be up to me to provide the info.

I'm not about to tell an opera singer how to sing; or a plumber to plumb; and I'm certainly not going to tell people how to use a chainsaw. I write what I know; if you care to share information on any of the suggested topics, I repeat please do.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

Walter threw out a random challenge:

> How about increasing the base from theatre to all artists.
> Include all musio's, painters, writers, tv/film, radio & muppets
too etc.
> A simple name change to "independant artists australia"

Here's one in return: why?

I'm not sure about musio's, but a quick search reveals that there are plenty of contributions from painters and writers and on the topics of film, tv and radio. There's even the odd post from muppets. Some of it is even vaguely theatre-related.

Returning briefly to the topic at hand... I think Na's advice to newbies is well researched and sound. I admire the patience with which she's delivered it over several years to an audience which has been variously grateful and significantly less so. 

I once had a teacher in the theatre from whom I really didn't learn a hell of a lot. His one valuable lesson was one that I have taken to heart: "Take from me what you will. Don't sweat the rest."

Don't complain if Na's advice wasn't what you wanted to hear. It is offered in good faith with the best of intentions to those who want to listen.

Regards
Grant

PS. I'm cheering. David just gave Sex and the City one star! 

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website

But why don't you do it? Register - it is free you know - and then write some posts and add it to the FAQ.

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Puppets in Melbourne

If you register, you don't need admin tools to add posts. And if you request it from Grant, you can have higher moderator status in order to add stuff to the FAQ.

I'm just saying, this is how the argument goes. People complain about something being missing, and then request it to be put up; when all you have to do is go the little extra step to actually add it yourself. And then people complain when we suggest that it's a group effort to make changes.

It says on the homepage: "If you find something missing, have a suggestion, a question, an answer, an event to promote or an idea to share, then remember it is up to YOU to let us all know." You had some great suggestions before, why not write something and share what you know?

I'd be more than happy to provide more if I had the knowledge, information, or time to research it; I don't. You're more than happy to make suggestions; but don't assist in making changes.

And there's your merry-go-round.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

Grant's the only admin that I'm aware of. I have no control over how the site appears, and neither does anyone else - I'm not including anybody involved in hosting/servers, etc. I, and a few others, can amend certain pages, but that's about it (amend in this case means add a page, or remove a page, or edit it, but not control functionality or design). As for change, I am aware that Grant does want to improve things, but as he is a volunteer, he can only do so much. It's also up to us to make suggestions that he can take on board; but don't forget that there are also limits to what you can do online within a certain budget - this entire site is created using a free program.

I'm not sure I recall saying "no one decent comes to this site"... It doesn't sound like something I'd say. I do think that very few people contribute out of the thousands that visit - but that's not saying much because most forum sites are like that.

But you say you want to 'open the website' to a wider use. The problem with that is it's not specific enough. A web designer can't turn that into a useful function: it's like telling an actor to 'act better' without actually giving them specifics on what's wrong and what needs to be improved. Tell an actor on the other hand that their tone of voice needs to be angrier, or whatever, and they immediately know what needs to be done.

So here, I pose some questions:

• What kind of functions would make this site better or easier to use?
• How would you structure the site? Would you have a different layout?
• Did you know that if you are a registered member, you can choose which parts of the site to see? (Ie. I don't have a list of auditions on my page, because I'm not an actress... You can turn on and off different sections)
• How would you go about making a site 'special' with only one volunteer managing it, more than 10 000 registered members, and a top ten ranking?
• How would you make it easier or better for new artists to find relevant information and encourage them to both participate in theatre, and participate online here?
• What areas of the site 'work' for you, and what areas do you think need improvements?
• What is your idea of what this site is? To some it's just a forum, to others it's a marketing mechanism, to others it's a place for auditions... Your idea of what this site is may differ to others
• How does all of this apply to the concept of encouraging and informing other artists on industry issues? If it's just a matter of adding more information, then as I said, let's just add it!

(As for Grant never replying: can't help you there I'm afraid. He usually responds to my emails within a few days. He's probably just pretty busy at the moment)

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

Or simply trolling?

Your tired, exasperated tone simply doesn't ring true as this looks like the first and only post from "Grant never replies".

:-) 

Are you the same person that posted out of left field earlier suggesting that the site change its name to "independant artists australia"? I responded with what I thought was a thoroughly sensible question, why? But don't appear to have received any response. Can it be that Grant never replies never replies?

If you're serious about opening up a dialogue and desperate to retain your anonymity at least settle on a single moniker for posting!

Cheers
Grant

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website

To take suggestions for change seriously if you would be more specific about what changes you wanted. Did you see my post previously asking you what kinds of things you wanted?

(Link to reply to that post is here:
http://www.theatre.asn.au/comment/reply/31209/38526 )

If you prefer to be ambiguous, then of course your opinions will go unheard. It's far more difficult to please someone when they don't provide specific criticisms on which the site can be improved upon.

And it's far easier to criticise someone's actions without backing it up with those specifics.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

I was listening.

I suspect you'd made up your own mind about the answers to your questions, in spite of any evidence to the contrary, before starting this discussion. But then it's impossible to know when "you" are posting.

My call: you're a time wasting troll. Prove me wrong. 

Cheers
Grant

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website

Either way; there's no need for it.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

I'm invoking Godwin's Law on this otherwise interesting thread. 

Regards
Grant

--
Director, actor and administrator of this website

I agree the whole arguement is pointless.

Na offers advice to those who post looking for work.
It is on the whole very good advice. It is the distilled information that has been posted by a number of people. It relates to theatre because frankly most of us are theatre people and while some of us have done a little film or TV work speaking for myself it is not very much.

Frankly nobody is going to object if someone with info about getting work or an agent in the film or TV world chooses to post it, If yiou join as a member you can setup an FAQ. It is of course much easier to remain anonymous and post incoherent and internally inconsistent complaints about the "old guard" and then storm off in high dudgeon.

I and many others have taken part in a number of fascinating debates on this site about subjects such as the role of the artist in the modern world, censorship and the theatre and the value of various movements in the arts world. Where were you then Mr Plinge of various types.

I expect to leave my block of land on Mars for my grandchildren to live on or maybe under.

Oh and by the way I consistently produce new work and am always trying to challenge my actors and technicians to push the envelope so I object to commenst about never trying anything new.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au

As mentioned previously, there are a number of threads on the topic of how to improve this site. Inevitably, options are discussed and nothing happens. It's not for lack of trying, or of will, but lack of time.

Every day I try to write an informative 'how to' on my website on making puppets. It can take me anywhere from half an hour to several hours to write something good. And that's not including time spent on research, making pictures, etc.

Not to mention the fact that lists on agents, etc, must be kept up to date.

There is also an inherent issue of where to stop: do we write a long, in depth piece specifically focusing on states, or even cities... Do we write one about going to the US or the UK? Do we write one for singers, one for musos, one for cast, one for crew...? The list would be extremely long on the number of topics.

If someone is willing to put the time in, then yes, let's do it. But you're forgetting that this site is also easy to get lost in - and you can't force people to find the relevant information unless they actually bother to look for it. As revealed in my blog post 'Some interesting stats' (linked above somewhere), there are a great number of people who visit the site, post a work wanted ad, don't read the FAQ or do a search, and then disappear again never to be heard from.

This is a tango I suspect: on the one side we have the issue of not having the time to add more to the FAQ, or perhaps the collective knowledge on a topic, and on the other side we have to have a person willing to actively research for that info.

I would actually love to see more info for the up and coming techie or designer than for actors. Pretty much everyone knows the whole spiel about getting acting work; getting tech work is not very well discussed anywhere.

And while this argument does get tiring, it reoccurs for a reason: the inevitable and undeniable need to keep trying to find better ways to share, discuss, enliven and create within our community.

PS. Thank you to all those who have offered words of support. I am sure that quite often best intentions are not enough; and it's nice to know I have a couple of friends here

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

Mindy, try reading the post at the top of this thread.

The advice is already there.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne

What a disaster if we didn't offer each other a few helpful hints because we were afraid someone would sue us if it didn't work for them.

People actually employed to provide professional services in the form of advice (lawyers, financial advisers and the like) might well need to be cautious and carry lots of insurance. IANAL but you'd be silly to stake your life and livelihood on advice provided on a public message board.

Particularly advice from me. A quick look at my profile points out my failed career as a professional theatre director!

:-) 

Regards
Grant

If you're not seeing it, read this:

http://www.theatre.asn.au/blog/na/looking_for_work_2

You are posting at the end of a list of posts, the first of which has a list of tips on how to find auditions, etc.

Fun puppet patterns to make at home! Puppets to buy at
Puppets in Melbourne