Be Suspicious. Bond for what?

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au

A membership fee is standard and a bond is not so unusual, but $200 is way out of line. What kind of amateur actor has $200 lying around to lend out to their theatre? What kind of theatre expects it? It's a bit fishy.
How big is the proposed cast of this production? And does everyone have to pay the bond?
Which theatre company is it with?

Can i ask you what company this is with? I think i may know if it is in Sydney and in all my years of doing shows have never heard of a bond being charged...a non-refundable show fee of approx $60-$80..yes, but NOT A BOND!!!

Its BLOC, or Balmain Light Opera Company. They say the bond is to ensure that people won't drop out of the production halfway through. The proposed cast is about 30 people, and everyone has to pay it, including the chorus

Not sure who to feel sorrier for, you or the company. I wonder if they got "stung" big time by people dropping out in the past? Or if it's simply become a custom and practice thing? Maybe they're broke and can't put the show on without it? In which case, just say so.

Still, all a bit fishy to me. I guess you need to do a list of pros and cons in regard to your involvement and settle it from there but personally I'd steer clear.

We all put our hands in our pockets when we do shows (except usually pro shows) but that's just a bit too much for my liking. I'll fund my own undergarments/tights/make up/certain bits of costume/membership very happily for most shows but I think I'd draw the line at this bond. It's purpose seems a bit "off" and certainly implys a lack of trust, not a good basis to form a company with.

"Papa, where is Mama? They tell me she has gone away, where is she?"

I've heard of a lot of amateur companies who ask for about $20 from both cast and crew - as a way of paying for the production itself. Like paying for membership to the group.

But I've never heard of, or would expect, people to pay $200. That's just over the top, and I would be more concerned that the admin of the group don't know whether they're going to sell tickets or not.

I can understand the sentiment of not wanting people to drop out, but the fact is they can't control things like that, especially in an amateur group. $200 bonds will just make people avoid participating, not encourage them.

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Adding additional support to the comments already made, $200 is simply out of line. I cannot think of any justification to warrant such a figure.

Are you going fo a chorus position, lead role, etc? Even so, $200, "Tell 'em their dreamin'."

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Thanks so much guys! I thought it was a bit much, but I wanted to check, not having been in a musical before. I was going to audition for the chorus, but I'll have to give that some serious thought now-it doesn't seem worth it and it definitely set the alarm bells ringing.

It's hard enough to find cast members. If we demanded that sort of money you wouldn't have a show. I assume WEAL is on the inside of this. I'd be interested to hear their reasons for the 'bond'.

Maybe this is an east coast thing. here in the west, I've never been asked for a bond. Most companies insist that you become a member to perform in their productions - fair enough - its usually only about $20. If there is a t-shirt on offer, you buy it if you want to - another $20.
No offence intended Weal, you seemed to know all about it, that's all.

It does seem to indicate a lack of goodwill on the part of the company. What guarantees do we have if the production goes belly up? What if more expenses crop up during rehearsals? It feels a bit like blackmail-you can leave if your not happy, but say bye bye to the $200. My understanding of amateur theatre (correct me if I'm wrong) is that its supposed to be friendly, fun, a group of people working hard and putting on a show because of their sheer love of performance, which is not the vibe I'm getting from this company. I'd be happy to pay a bond for sheet music, script etc but $200 is too much.

I've been advised to contact MEAA as well, Weal. Do they cover amateur productions?

No. They will not act or even get involved. It is not employment. Are you a member?

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au

I can't believe I'm reading this crap. My last show cost ME personally about $500 in fuel [and hire car twice] to attend rehearsals and performances because I live a 90k round trip from the theatre. Plus several meals. And I had to pay a $20 membership fee [that's to cover insurance]. I don't mind working with people who are being paid in a large cast and I don't get paid [if my role is minor]. A lead role, well that would be different.

But a company charging me up front? Bugger off! So-called amateur theatre is a multi-multi-million dollar business in this country. Mostly amateur companies will try to cover their costs. But, they rely on volunteer labour. That is worth a lot in dollar terms - and they get it for nothing. And they get most of the actors' performance for nothing as well. When you get some payment for acting you realise what your performance is worth in dollar terms and you are giving of your skill and performance as an actor for nothing. AND you're paying up front costs that you can't claim on tax if you are not a "professional" actor.

So, companies like this ought to get real. Respect for actors and volunteers must be the driving force. A $200 bond PLUS payment by the actor for the "privilege" is disrespectful. And, it is no privilege, even if it were at the Opera House. It would be a different matter if the company were a cooperative and you were buying in for a share of the profits....

I live in Western Australia and have NEVER heard such a load of TRIPE in all my years working in community theatre! We here in WA are quite regularly taking our community shows to venues such as the Playhouse, the Regal and the Mandurah Performing Arts Centre - all venues of professional standard that have played host to professional productions and performers like Les Miserables, Hair, Phantom of the Opera, concerts by Elaine Page, Rob Guest, Michael Ball - the list goes on!

When we do our community shows in these venues we have ALL of the elements that you are saying justify a cost of $300 ($100 of which you WON'T get back) to an individual just to be in a show. For most companies here in WA the only required cost incurred is about $20 for a t-shirt and approx $50 if you don't hand back your libretto. How can you honestly say that anything justifies what this company is asking someone to outlay finanicially?

Also, you state: "I know ticket sales for the show were very healthy but didn't go all the way by any means to covering the cost of the show." Then the performance is clearly not up to standard! Theatre Companies here in WA that don't at least work on a cost neutral basis cease to exist. That being the case, we work as hard as we can and produce shows of fantastic quality - not something hovering between amateur and pro - in order to generate an audience from a population that, sadly, is not actaully all that interested in theatre. Basically, what I'm saying here is that we work our collective butts off to do the very best we can so that the audience comes and we make enough money to do the next show!

The only time I have ever encountered the concept of paying to be in a production is in the case of profit share - where you pay an amount to help fund putting the production on and if at the end when all is said and done there is a profit, you take a percentage share equal to the amount you put in (or any similar model). Risky (cause it's highly possible you will lose money) but fair.

As far as I'm concerned, none of the reasoning you have given as to why this company is charging this money is anywhere near good enough and I would strongly advise anyone considering working with this company (and therefore making such a payment) to reconsider!

Darren
- Angry that companies are taking advantage of talented performers

Bond is NOT acceptable.
I'm not even sure basic membership fees are OK, unless of course they cover something like your PL Insurance, a necessity these days.

$200 is ridiculous. loyalty is nothing to do with money and everything to do with relationships. I know of only 3 times somebody has pulled out of a show I was involved in. 2 for health and one because of a very serious family issue. In all cases the show was able to go ahead with a short flurry of activity...
I'd be looking at why people left me high and dry. (personal responsibility is a very powerful place from which to live your life!)

Take time to train an understudy if you're worried. The understudy will be very unlikely to pull out if their chance were to arrive.

and if you are going to blow $150K of your own money, then only hire and contract professionals. Or contract your (volunteer) cast.

Get more money- Get sponsors in your program, for your company etc. Charge $2 extra on each ticket. rather than screwing the very people who are already giving of their time and experience for free.

Basically, as I have said too many times now- if you cannot afford to do your show, then you simply CAN'T DO IT!
Any business out there that tries to operate on this basis would at the least disappear quickly, at the worst, find themselves in court for operating under false pretenses. e.g. Imagine if your local small deli went bust, having charged its three volunteer 16 yr old serving staff a bond (and not paying them by the way, as they weren't trained/qualified), because "operating a deli is expensive, I put in lots of my own money, and we were all passionate about the deli."?! There is a reason why financiers such as banks go through a bunch of criteria for financing businesses, and being likely to not see their money disappear is paramount.

It just sounds like another passionate artistic person (a good thing) not having enough of a clue about their business (a bad thing). Yes people, unfortunately it is a business- a highly expensive and risky one. This director appears to be screwing over the very people he or she needs to make it work.

And it's all OK because it's being performed in a professional theatre????!!!!
That argument defies belief.

Neville

It's the simple things stupid...

Also, I just did a bit of research - not being from Sydney I thought I would look up the theatre in question, but 2 theatres are mentioned here...

Donna Talbert says: "The productions are held at the Seymour Centre"

BUT David Blake says: "production being put on in a professional venue (the theatre royale)!!!!"

So, which venue is it?? They certainly aren't the same place - I thought they might have been so I looked them up...

Seymour Centre
City Rd and Cleveland St, Chippendale
University of Sydney multi-storey carpark next to theatre, entry from Shepherd St. Buses 422, 423, 426 and 428 from Castlereagh St or Railway Square at Central Station stop outside Seymour Centre. Or walk from Central Station.

Theatre Royal
King St, Sydney.
Underground parking available. Or take a train to Town Hall and walk. Or take a bus with a nearby stop.

Source: http://goaustralia.about.com/od/theatreperformingarts/a/sydneytheatres2_2.htm

So which venue is it?? They are both beautiful venues, but the Seymour Centre is also a learning space that is part of the University of Sydney, so I'm guessing performers that are training at UofS get the chance to perform there quite regularly... As for the Theatre Royal - they hire out at a negotiable rate from show to show (at least that's what their admin staff told me) So I'm failing to see why a $150K budget is being put up - particularly when you can pay the theatre hire out of box office takings... What's the show so I can look up the cost of the performing rights? I'm a little befuddled as to the size of that budget!

Darren

There are a number of individuals around this country who put on big shows privately out of their own pockets. They all tend to have the same line of patter about how much it costs them to mount the show and how if you want to be involved you need to show your commitment by putting up a show fee and or a bond. They give the impression that they are doing this as a service either to the wider community or to the various dewy eyed innocents that get caught up in the excitement of the whole process. The show goes on and sure they stand a chance of losing their shirts but it's my experience that they usually don't. They usually walk away with a nice lot of money in their pocket. Some people get paid, usually the hardened cynical old pro's who won't do it otherwise but the aforementioned dewey eyed innocents don't. They pay a show fee, they pay for their own costumes and all their expenses and are left feeling that they have acheived a step up in their career. They usually haven't.
I'm not saying this is one of those cases but I have ceratinly experienced this in many places.
In my opinion a reasonable budget for a top end amateur musical (outside of Royalties which are usually based on a percentage of door and theatre hire) would be in the region of 20,000 to 50,000 depending on how much the band costs.
I put on straight plays for a sum of around $4 - $5 K.

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.
www.tonymoore.id.au

I don't know you and if you actually read my post you would realise that I was very careful to say that I didn't know if you were one of those people.
Your post above doesn't help your image.
1/ Frankly unless you are a philantrophic millionaire I don't believe anyone could lose 100,000 dollars and keep operating. Alright some of it you haven't lost because it is capital investment but none the less.
2/ When I put on a show I have two budgets. One is the expenditure which I have control over completely. How much I spend in this area is governed by how much the other expenditure that I cannot control ie Theatre Hire and Royalties will be. This is simplistic but then so is your expenses list above.
I think you are getting rooked on the rehearsal room but I don't know the venue.
I also believe you are paying too much for lightng hire. Are we talking a wet hire? If so then why is there an additional charge for a fully professional lighting designer.
My friend, you are doing professional theatre paying those you choose to pay and taking money out of the pockets of the dewey eyed innocents to whom I referred earlier.
I stand by my comments, and my advice to anyone asked to pay a bond of this nature would still be "Don't do it."

Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing.www.tonymoore.id.au

Catfang, I am astounded by this quote: "To date we have never actually charged anyone the $200 bond". So you lie to the people who go to the orientation? Frighten off the wary and the cautious with blatant deception? I'm sorry, but treating people in this manner is absolutely disgraceful and unprofessional to boot.